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Tank Comparison
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Post by
183031
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Post by
Dralas
Well, I can give you a some pro's and con's for warriors.
Pro's: The most balanced tanking class. No one makes fun of warriors unlike "lolpaladinsarefacerollnow" and the constant slap of nerfs on druids.
We run on priority tanking, so meaning you judge your threat by what procs like a free shield slam and revenge for instance.
Abilities: Only class with sunder, that's a nice thing. Demo-shout and t-clap is good. Paladin only had t-clap effect and druid only has demo-shout. Warrior has both.
Also shield wall, last stand, shield block, enraged regeneration, lots of "O SHI-" buttons.
Con's: We do need a little buff soon since block value isn't the greatest thing. Also the problem of OT'ing since we can build no rage. Also, the better gear you get = less attacks on you = less rage.
Post by
44284
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Post by
282913
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Post by
Porcell
I'm a warrior MT in Ulduar. I love my class, I'm very good at it, but I'll share what I feel are the shortcomings at the moment.
Cons: Rage. This is probably the root of all of my issues. First off, I feel useless on trash. If I have a bunch of things beating on me then I am getting rage and can spam my abilities and hold threat. If my paladin offtank initiates the pull, I have no rage, nothing giving me rage, and need to taunt in order to get agro. This kind of leads into my next concern...
Ranged Threat. We suck at it. Until something is in melee range, we have nothing. You really have to depend on all of your DPS to be intelligent and patient. Phase 1 of Yogg Saron, if even 1 DPS casts 1 Spell before the guy gets to you, you are going to be left rage starved with no recourse but to taunt (and hope the taunt sticks for long enough for the mob to run to you and for you to hit it before agro is pulled off again). Yogg Saron phase 3 is terrible for a warrior tank, unless we charge all over the place (which can work but isn't optimal).
Pros: Awesome boss tanks. I don't know if it is my particular offtank, but all of the healers say that he gets absolutely wrecked and they like healing me more (for what that's worth). For the most part threat on bosses is great, and we have three great debuffs (TC, Demo, Sunder). Rage gen can be a little spiky when you get an avoidance string, so that's unfortunate. It feels like I always have either 100 rage or 0 rage...
Post by
44284
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Post by
Shiverlynn
Druids aren't the best at ranged threat either... But they do have both a TC effect and a demo shout effet, unlike what was previously stated. And I don't think they have any anti-caster cooldowns except the charge and the stun.
Pro of warrior is that it can get the tanking job done. Con of warrior is that it takes a better class of player to get the job done well. And a lower quality player is not going to be able to tank at all, without a very good healer and great DPS support.
The same applies to every tanking class, not just warriors. I also have a paladin tank and I agree it seems easier to tank as a paladin, but they have a different complexity than the warriors. Same goes for DKs, easy to grasp basics, but difficult advanced tanking.
Post by
anywherenotes
Ranged Threat. We suck at it. Until something is in melee range, we have nothing. You really have to depend on all of your DPS to be intelligent and patient.
I can see how this can be a problem. Paladins canAvenger's Shield and (until 3.2) Exorcism off the bat and be loaded with some threat immediately. Warriors, not so much.
Yea, I tanked on warrior and than paladin pre 3.0 (in BC), and the thing I noticed when I switched to paladin is how my hands are no longer so short :)
Basically on a warrior, if I had to back out (lets say move away from a pat), I couldn't keep on hitting the mob. On a paladin, that wasn't the case at all, though in 3.0 they added a new attack that requires melee range.
Now tanking on DK, it's still not as nice in that respect as it was pre 3.0 paladin, but better than pre-3.0 warrior.
But warriors really are the most overpowered tank. Maybe not right now in respect to how much damage you can take vs. a DK, that's not what I'm talking about. Warriors have the most number of tanking spells.
There are 2 taunts (I am counting mocking blow), than there's also AOE taunt. I believe DK's have 2 taunts (not counting Army, since it's a very slow cast), I think Druids have 1 taunt and one AOE? Paladins do not have AOE taunt at all.
Warriors can dash to a nearby player to escape AOE of a boss, they can quickly charge right back. No other tank has that as far as I know.
The debuffs are truly exceptional. Although buffs are minimal. Of course Warrior's Commanding Shout has no equivalent buff. DK's buff can be replaced by a shaman, though I believe it's not optimal totem to use. The commanding shout is worth a lot in my opinion.
Also, I believe from a marketing point of view, Blizzard will not let Warriors be worst tank - because historically they've been MTs. I think it's better for them to let Paladins or Druids be the worst tank. DK's are a new class, I hope they won't let DKs fail, because next expansion no one will roll new class than.
If you're thinking of rerolling, realize that paladins and druids can also heal. And that's a curse or a blessing, depending on you.
Post by
Dralas
@ Above poster. Commanding shout can be replaced by a lock's blood pact. Those two cannot stack.
2nd) Yes, we have mocking blow.. but if you read it correctly, it does NOT taunt. It forces them to attack, so if you don't have top threat by the end of the debuff, it goes back to the thing with the other highest threat.
3) Druids have I believe have savage roar, which is their aoe taunt. DK is really the only exception, but an army comes to attack which can be of greater use in the end. Paladins, well, just no.
4) Yes, we do dash back and forth. That's part of the class mechanic. We have a type of "dash" for every stance. Its built in, although you use it mainly to run in to a fight. Rarely do you have to get out quickly. I can only think of emalon for intervene's use, but even then your tank can just eat the aoe.
I'm not trying to trash my own class, I'm just saying that in no way is the warrior tank overpowered AT ALL. Like I said, were probaly the most balanced tank atm.
Post by
pezz
Paladins do not have AOE taunt at all.
Our original and up to 3.1 (I think that was the patch) only taunt is an AOE taunt. Not AOE in the strictest sense of the phrase I suppose but definitely a multi-target taunt. All three mobs have to be targeting the same person but really, if you've lost threat, how often do you lose it to three seperate people on three seperate mobs? Not to mention the paladin 'aoe' taunt is on an 8 second cooldown and Challenging Shout is on a three minute cooldown. All in all I'd say I'd prefer to have the paladin AOE taunt rather than the warrior one.
Post by
Thror
All current tanking classes have no Threat issues, be it AoE or single target, if correctly specced an played. The only thing that can reliably pull aggro from a good tank is another good tank, and thats not really a problem.
All current tanking classes have just enough avoidance and mitigation to survive anything the raids have to offer.
Druids and Warriors use Rage to power their attacks. That means they have to get hit to start running at 100% TPS, so their start might be a little slower compared to a DK or a Pally. However, if supplied with sufficient rage, their snap aggro is fine.
Paladins and DKs use different systems, bot both enable them to start hitting the highest threat buttons right off the bat, so their beginnings are pretty fast. A paladin/DK with lower lvl gear might pull aggro from a better geared Druid or Warrior at the beginning of the fight, but as the fight proceeds, Druid/Warrior will catch up and take aggro.
Paladins and Warriors generate threat through responsive ablities, like shield reflects, talent procces and such.
Druids and Death Knights generate threat through DPS.
Death Knights have a lot of defensive cooldowns. They are pretty good for bosses with predictable high burst abilities.
Druids have an immense health pool, and they have the ability to expand it further for a short time. They are good for saving the raid from a wipe in situations where 1 tank dies, and the second tank pulls the first tanks boss too. (when i tank Molgeim, and the Steelbreaker tank dies accidentally, i can taunt him and stand both the guys until Steelbreaker dies or the Paladin is combat rezzed, only thanks to the fact that i have 70k hp for about 20 seconds).
Warriors have great interrupts, and are generally best tanks for bosses with interruptable abilities. The DKs interrupt is nothing to be frowned upon either, but the Warriors resource system is more oh-shi.t friendly.
Paladins have a few abilities that really help their survivability, examples... Ardent Defender, and Lay on Hands. They can dispel themselves, which is just awesome.
Death Knights and Paladins generate threat mainly through Global Cooldown abilities, while Druids and Warriors generate a large part of their TPS through melee attack replacing abilities. That makes Druids and Warriors somewhat worse for fights like General Vezax, where your melee attack speed is reduced by 20%.
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