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DKs and DW
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Post by
Pharsyde99
I know there are a million posts about this and many people frown upon DW as a Dk but I just wanted some feedback on this....
I went to a DW Blood spec over the weekend (55,8,8 )
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0E0VhcIcfMfcst0xcZ0xh
and my single target DPS is lacking a bit (only1400) but multi mob dps is just as good as my 2H dps (1800 -1900) due to heartstrike. I have a decent rotation DnD, IT,PS,Pest, then DS x2 (gets me 4 death runes) then I can hit 8 heartsrtikes in a row that ave for 1800-2500 (on the high end with no crits thats 20k damage) and crit for 4k.
I don't have the greatest gear atm but I'm thinking that once I get some better 1h weps and I will put up decent numbers.
What do you guys think?
I was also thinking about a DW frost dps spec (12,51,8 )
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0vhZhxcxA0h0fziost0xh
I know 3.2 will bring even better dps to the frost build but to be honest... I just love being able to DW tank and dps... it's like being a rogue tank back in the day when you could dodge almost anything with evasion up but now I can take the hits and not die after the 15 sec...lol
Edit - BTW... that blood build works great in 2v2s. I am able to pressure both the healer and the dps with 1 attack. Makes for great fun.
Post by
410715
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
red8981
Lol, I am going to try DW when 3.2 is out otherwise i stick with 2H.
and DW in blood is.... insane, not damage output, but brain cell output..
Post by
Pharsyde99
Other than the issue with base damage... what are the other reasons people shy away from DW?
I know 3.2 and ToT are going to make Frost a much better DW tree but until then are there any options?
I do have a decent 2h wep but I just enjoy DW.
.. BTW... the DW Blood spec was just for fun... I did use to lvl (honestly worked for dps and tanking normal instances).
The other reason behind my madness is that I have alway been one to try random specs. I had my lock (Pre BC) as Demo speced but all out in Imp.... LOL... with my Black Book...my little imp could burn down anyone (with the curse of elements on that is). That kind of stuff is fun for me.
Post by
red8981
you dont have rune enchant that as good as fallen crusder
you dont have same dps output, lower than 2H
you dont have slow weapon speed for HB procs
that is all i can think atm, there are more, but forget.
I was enjoying DWing with the 32/39 build back in the 3.0 days.. (i think it was 3.0 before HB change to Last tier)
Post by
Pharsyde99
Fallen Crusader can be used on 1h weps and if you wanna get crazy you can put it on both and it procs often enough that it is almost never down.
The damage output of the 2h is a given and I do miss that.
One this that is nice is the proc from Sudden Doom. With the faster swings (and I belive the offhand counts) i'm getting a instant 0 runic power death coil every 20-30 seconds (on targets in IF with I was playing around)
Post by
Pharsyde99
I think what I am trying to avoid is the same mindset that everyone is in.. you know the whole idea that only one build works and all others are inferior (yeah some are). I just enjoy trying things out and if you want I can run Naxx 25 tonight and see how I do and come back with results and maybe even some other DKs data from the run to compare.
I'll let you guys know.
Post by
Eleazer
Lets clear something up DW Frost in 3.2 will not be the dps king in fact it won't change Frosts dps numbers much at all. Frost DW will still be approximately the same dps as previous Frost 2h.
Having said that DW Blood is ridiculous you weaken every single one of your attacks. You lessen your dps. You need more hit and the fact that you are only pushing 1400 is proof enough that you are specced wrong.
FC can be used on both weapons, but that's a mistake, because it doesn't double proc it only refreshes the previous one if it procs costing you a loss of dps.
Gaining a small increase in Sudden Doom procs versus the sizeable dps loss is ridiculous, and the reason why so many people hate DK's. You can spec this way if you want, it's your character, just please don't raid or run instances like that because that affects every other dk who is trying to build a decent dps reputation.
Finally, there are several builds that you can use for DK's that work, why try one that has proven to be a failure. DW tanking is a failure waiting to happen.
Post by
Pharsyde99
Ok...
I just like to mess around like I said. I raid as unholy all the time and I put up between 1900 and 2100 dps. Most of the reason I have low dps is gear. My DK is one of my alts so I tend to pass on gear and allow mains to take it over me. Most of my damage comes from DnD and UB as unholy and that also needs mutiple mobs to have decent dps.
I don't understand how I am hurting the rep of DKs if I'm still putting up 1800 to 1900 on most fights with weapons that are by far inferior to my 2H.
Post by
Eudemonia
One this that is nice is the proc from Sudden Doom. With the faster swings (and I belive the offhand counts) i'm getting a instant 0 runic power death coil every 20-30 seconds (on targets in IF with I was playing around)
Oh really? You're getting more procs from
Sudden Doom
by using a 1h weapon, are you?
Most of my damage comes from DnD and UB as unholy and that also needs mutiple mobs to have decent dps.
Your damage is heavily skewed towards these abilities because, wait for it... by using a 1h weapon you're severely reducing the damage your strikes do. Shocking, yes, I know.
I don't understand how I am hurting the rep of DKs if I'm still putting up 1800 to 1900 on most fights with weapons that are by far inferior to my 2H.
Uh, because this is a shockingly low level of DPS for someone raiding? Possibly because you seem deeply confused by some of your class abilities?
Others have covered the problems with your specs; they're problematic, to say the least.
As an aside, what is this obsesion some people seem to have with DW tanking? It requires levels of hit that are simply not supported by tanking gear, and parry haste means you're actually taking more damage from bosses. To top it off, the best tanking
runeforge
can't be used without a 2hander.
So what is the lure of DW tanking?
Post by
Pharsyde99
Most of my damage comes from DnD and UB as unholy and that also needs mutiple mobs to have decent dps.
Your damage is heavily skewed towards these abilities because, wait for it... by using a 1h weapon you're severely reducing the damage your strikes do. Shocking, yes, I know.
I currently have Armageddon as my 2H and and I still do most of my dps from DnD and UB. I look at recount and the end of most raids to see where my damage is coming from and how often I miss (and I am hit capped so I don't miss)
Post by
Eleazer
Yep what he said above 1800 is really low in fact 2100 is insanely low for unholy 25 man raid dps. And any dk's whose major source of dps is DnD is a dk who doesn't use the proper rotation. DnD should never ever be your major source of dps.
The first time I see a dk while I am raiding use DnD. I message them and tell them to stop it because it's costing them dps and ticking the tank off and causing him to look like a noob. Typically the message I get back is, really, why? I explain to them the cost of DnD as opposed to their spec tell them to read
www.wowhead.com
unholy dps thread and then give them a very basic dps rotation to use, and magically their dps increases when they listen.
If you are unholy and spamming DnD you are wasting runes and causing untoward headaches for your tanks, and decreasing your total dps output. DnD is strictly a tanking/questing tool. Can you link your armoury?
Try not using DnD even once, read the unholy thread and try the rotation there and then watch your dps increase.
Post by
Pharsyde99
I'll check out the thread.
I normally only use DnD at the start and only once the tank has agg on all mobs.
My typical rotation is as follows.....
on trash (more than one mob) DnD,UB, IT,PS, Pest, then I more or less spam SS and DC and BS when blood runes are up.
on boss or single targets: more or less the same w/o DnD.
In raids I only use DnD on trash and only if I know the tank is capable of dealing with it. Most of the people I raid with are already in clearing Uld and are just running Naxx with alts.
Post by
Pharsyde99
I was just looking at raid info from a friend of mine and he is unholy and his raid data shows that 8% of his total damage was from DnD (that is a good chunk of damage in a 25 Uld run) and he was putting up 5600 dps. So how can DnD not be viable for unholy dps? I'm not saying that it is to be spamed but you would still use it from time to time.
Post by
Eleazer
Okay is he tanking? 2ndly you said 8 percent that's not a sizeable chunk that's a small portion. You stated DnD was most of your dps. I took that to mean 20-30 percent if that is the case than you are doing something wrong. I believe only an unholy can get away with DnD at 8 percent anyone else and it's a dps loss. 8 percent means he uses it too much for my taste and 5600 in Ulduar is pretty solid.
Post by
red8981
Most of my damage comes from DnD and UB as unholy and that also needs mutiple mobs to have decent dps.
Most of Damage, I take that as the largest portion on a pie chart.
I don't understand how I am hurting the rep of DKs if I'm still putting up 1800 to 1900 on most fights with weapons that are by far inferior to my 2H.
Spec, Gear, Rotation.
the Right Spec does the work, i could do 6k in 10man Naxx with right spec, and i could do 2k in same raid with random spec.
Gear, I would do dps that is closer to 0 than 6k with no gear on, point is dps depends on Gear.
Rotation:
DnD, IT,PS,Pest, then DS x2
How did you do that?
I assume you in Blood Pressure, so it goes
DnD, 3 rune cd
IT, no more Frost Rune
PS, no more Unholy Rune
and.... down time, where you dont have rune to do anything, ~1-3sec
DSx2, No unholy/frost rune again
then I can hit 8 heartsrtikes in a row
Heart Strike x2
down time again, ~3-4 sec
Heart Strike x4 for death rune, then Heart Strike 2 for blood rune
so you got 4-7sec doing not thing in one rotation.
or can you go
IT, PS, Pest, HSx1, DSx1, DC
HSx4, DSx1, DCx2 or 3
make you possibly with no down time
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