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Kitty and missing or kitty can't hit @#$% LOL
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Post by
etrin
My little cat is only level 71 but I have seen a LOT of miss flying in scrolling combat text.
I assume that I need more hit. I went thru the leather items and from what I can see there is just not much drops with +hit.
armory says a hit rating of 16 and 736 ap I am assuming that is not in kitty form.
Should I just stack agi or ?
even thought I seem to kill pretty fast (nothing great like a pally or dk) I am only doing 470-490 dps on recount...seems kinda low
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MegaVolt
I wouldnt worry about it while leveling so much, just keep piling on agility.
Come level 80 and raiding, that changes ofc and its a good idea to reach the hit/expertise caps, it makes the rotation easier to maintain.
According to EJ agil is always superior to hit. So just don't worry about the misses, they don't cost combo points or energy anyway.
Post by
Heckler
According to EJ agil is always superior to hit. So just don't worry about the misses, they don't cost combo points or energy anyway.
This is true mathematically, but most people (even the EJ people who say that its better) would agree that capping is the better choice, mostly to make sure in fights where you're doing more than just DPS (ie moving out of fires, switching to adds, etc, etc) that any "I NEED this swing to land so I can run away" swings will always land; it also makes our Already-Complex-Enough rotation a little more predictable, and therefore easier. But don't let missing upset you too much, because in fights like Patchwerk or the training dummy, Agility will net more DPS than +Hit... While leveling, its not that big of a deal.
Last month we had a lengthy discussion about the merits of the Hit Cap and the benefits of ignoring it, its definitely worth a read, there's a ton of good info in here:
Cat dps - we dont need hit cap any more? - Druid - Wowhead Forums
Post by
109094
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Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
I'll answer the ones I think I know: (please keep in mind, this is as far as I understand everything, and may be wrong)
(1) Is it a one roll or two roll system? In other words, is there one roll to see whether there was in fact a hit and then a second roll to see if there is a crit? Or is there one roll, where the crit percentage is applied to the range of what would be a hit, and then a roll that falls above that line would be a crit?
It is generally accepted (Blizzard has never, and will never come out and state this explicitly) that white attacks are one-roll and yellow attacks are 2 roll. (One roll means you have a Crit% chance to crit
per swing
... Two roll means you have a Crit% chance to crit
per hit
).
Quantitative example: 25% crit chance, 25% miss chance: White attacks will crit 25% of the time (100 attacks = 25 crits), Yellow attacks will crit 18.75% of the time (75% * 25%) (100 attacks, 19 crits). In this example, reducing miss% does not yield more White crits, but DOES yield more yellow crits.
(2) If it's a one roll system as I outlined above, doesn't improving your hit (i.e. reducing the size of the "miss" range) passively improve your chance to crit?
For white attacks, chance to miss reduces the maximum potential chance to crit (crit cap). Reducing parry/dodge/block will also increase the 'crit cap'. For yellow attacks, as far as I understand it, since crit is only rolled on successful attacks, you will crit your crit% of attacks that land; so more attacks landing = more crits for the same crit%. (See example above).
(3) Is there a "yellow damage" hit cap that's different/lower than the "white damage" hit cap, or is the cap at around 263 that we're discussing here the only hit cap for kitties? Rogues, being dual-wielders, actually have three different hit caps, the white damage hit cap currently being effectively unattainable, the others being 99 for yellow damage attacks and ~313 for poison damage attacks.
For rogues, White attacks come from the main hand and off hand, so thats 2 different caps since offhand has a higher base chance to miss. Poisons are considered spells, and are therefore subject to the spell miss chance (17%). Druids only have 1 weapon, so we have 1 hit cap for both white and yellow attacks. I believe Growl and Faerie Fire may be under the 'Spell' category, so they are subject to 17%, but no one worries about capping Faerie Fire, and cats don't growl.
(5) Haste rating of any use for kitties, or a waste of item budget? There doesn't seem to be any mechanism built in to kitties to help regenerate energy faster other than one cooldown, so I don't know that it would make a big difference other than for white damage attacks.
All it affects is our white damage speed, since our global cooldown is already 1.0 sec, and can't be reduced further. Since white damage is a low % of our total damage, its the worst Value per Budget stat we have.
Sorry i can't answer (4), the only raid I've done in WotLK is Naxx, and I only did it once, and we didn't finish. =O
Post by
Lightrain
As for #4...
Get Grim Toll, never have issues with hit capping again.... Every melee(less Ret paladins) thrive on ArPen. Kitties are no exception.
Also, Agility is
NOT>
Hit. The ONLY reason they say this is because you shouldn't be
gemming
for hit. If you absolutely need to in level 80 gear, do it. But, at that gear level, Agility may be better for your dps.
Losing GCD's to misses is a horrible way to do feral dps. Get capped, enjoy watching huge FB crits between Rip and SR refreshes, life is good.
Some of the T8 feral gear has hit, but doesn't have expertise. You can get both from off pieces, although in Ulduar gear, I'm finding it harder to find expertise than hit rating(Hit rating is on EVERYTHING.... I can't even use my Grim Toll in raid because I have so much hit, yet I'm .25% under expertise cap...).
Post by
Heckler
Also, Agility is
NOT>
Hit. The ONLY reason they say this is because you shouldn't be
gemming
for hit. If you absolutely need to in level 80 gear, do it. But, at that gear level, Agility may be better for your dps.
Mathematically on a target that never moves and you're always behind, Agility > Hit even if you're not capped, point for point, in terms of DPS increase per point. These ideal situations don't really ever happen, and it doesn't factor in the likely human-error associated with a non-predictable rotation, but nonetheless, Agi > Hit, by the numbers (its all in that thread I linked above, and in many EJ threads as well)
Post by
Lightrain
The math for this stuff never adds up because of how feral works. Missing screws with our CP generation and keeping our debuffs up. It's the difference of having a latency of 80 vs a latency of 400+. It's BAD for dps.
RNG is what makes the difference here. You could miss 2 shreds in a row, and now you are late on your CP's and can't FB, so you are stuck shred spamming for another 6-10 seconds because you missed. This reduces your dps. Does it happen all the time? No. But it happens frequently enough that you should be capped at higher levels of gear.
At low level gear(ilvl<200), agility>hit for gemming purposes.
At higher levels of gear, ArPen>hit>agil because point for point on agility means nothing since you already have 1200-1400 agility on your gear alone(raid buffed), while you need only a little over 200 hit to cap out 8%.
If you are sitting in 4 piece naxx 25/ulduar 10 or combination of 2 piece bonuses, get hit capped and work on your armor pen. If you're grinding heroics/naxx 10, work on agility and finding a way to be hit capped.
Don't put weights on things that forcing good/bad RNG on your dps on top of good/bad RNG on your crits. There is no weight for that.
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