Post by Dunsinane
/epicfacepalm
all tanking gear gives block rating and block value.
From crafted greens to Ulduar hard modes, there is plenty of tanking gear without BR or BV. ZOMG its everywhere!
http://deathknight.info/forum/index.php?topic=6673.0as alot of other dk want, i too wants to DW. but as a tank
i know that i will need a lot of hit rating
as most items have hit rating - that alone is a proof that it's ment for warriors not dks as we tank different
Make up your mind.
if more haste speed goes upp and wepone damage goes down
No, it doesn't.
so learn the class and open your eyes blizzard has forgoten dk or putten it for hate since we lack so many items
What items are you missing? Are DKs running around without pants these days?
Post by Dunsinane
i'll make it nice and simple..
lets say you loot a chest with haste rating on it
I'm still wondering why haste is an issue in what is supposedly a tanking discussion, as there's no tanking gear with haste on it. But okay. We have a miraculous piece of gear with defense and haste on it.
as you use it you speed will go upp aswell as your dps and you white damage outputt but your overall damage on each hit will go down like if you did 1500 each hit suddenly you do 1444
STOP.
No, it doesn't.
Haste increases the frequency of your swings, reduces cast times, and reduces your global cooldown. It in no way, shape or form reduces the amount of damage you deal with attacks.
If I take any given DK and keep all numbers the same except giving him 100 haste rating, his strikes will do precisely the same amount of damage and his overall DPS will go up from the increased number of white attacks (and the procs that result from those).
and the reason i don't like hit rating is cause( this is as a tank) i normaly proc spells( death and decay and howling blast) which requires much less hit rating cause their used at a lower rate than other tanks
No. The frequency of your swings has nothing whatsoever to do with the value of hit rating.
Death Knights, like Warriors (and to a lesser extent Druids), gain most of their threat through active abilities. The debuffs they place on their targets (warrior sunders, DK diseases) are there primarily to boost the effectiveness of these abilities (in threat terms).
- I'm a warrior. I press my Shield Slam bind. It hits. I generate x amount of threat.
- I'm a druid. I press my Maul bind. It hits. I generate x amount of threat.
- I'm a frost DK. I press my Frost Strike button. It hits. I generate x amount of threat.
Every time you miss with an ability, that is a GCD you've lost during which you generate effectively no threat. A 1% miss chance is about a 1% loss of threat and a spikier generation of aggro. Worse, if you use an ability which has a cooldown (such as Howling Blast) and it misses, you've just lost significant threat as misses still put the ability on CD.
With 32.79 hit rating = 1% hit and 1 hit rating = 1 strength on gear, we can do some napkin math to compare and get a good idea as to which is more valuable.
- 1 Str = 2 AP, therefore 32.79 Str = 65.58 AP
- 14 AP = 1 DPS, therefore 32.79 Str = ~4.69 DPS
- Assuming a 3.6 speed weapon (not sure if DK strikes are normalized - they don't seem to be, and this would favor Str anyway), your base melee damage will be ~ +17 damage per swing.
- Frost tank strikes during an arbitrary rotation through one set of runes = 3x Obliterate, 2x Frost Strike, 1x Rune Strike, 2x regular melee = 120.7 extra damage over 10 seconds = 193.5 threat over 10 seconds.
- Comparison is 1% threat increase (32.79 hit) vs 19.35 TPS (32.79 strength).
- Hit will generate more threat until you reach the cap over strength unless you are generating less than 1935 TPS. That number can be achieved in Tempered Saronite.
(edit - forgot to include the Rune Strike threat multiplier and replace normal swings with Rune Strikes)(Note: napkin math - the assumptions made are biased in favor of strength at every turn, as is the rounding. The actual TPS at which Hit > Strength is very likely lower.)
Compare this with Paladins, who are pretty indifferent to hit as a stat while tanking. They have several means of generating threat that are not affected by hit (or not significantly so) that amount to approximately 1/3rd of their total threat.
- Consecrate - can only miss on the first tick of damage. Does not suffer from DnD's long cooldown and does not interfere with the use of other threat generating abilities.
- Holy Shield and Retribution Aura - pure reflective damage.
- Seal of Corruption - stacking dot that is significantly more effective than DK diseases and is applied passively with every melee swing. Easily spread across multiple mobs with Hammer of the Righteous.
Mathematically speaking, if a Paladin misses with a Shield of Righteousness swing, that's a bad thing... but he gains far more from stacking strength over hit due to the extra damage generated by the strength on the steady ticking of threat he has from his fire-and-forget abilities.
I'm sure Lynri and some of the other experienced DK tanks here can probably correct me on the finer points, but hit rating (and expertise by the same logic) seem to me to be huge stats for DK threat.
but i do not need it wich is why i keep #$%^&ing about items ment for DKS that don't give the rigth stats
You've said this over and over. So clarify if you will. What stats do you think DKs need on tanking gear other than Defense, Dodge, Parry, Stamina, Strength, Hit and Expertise?