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10.2.5
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Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!
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Post by
Squishalot
Actually, Protribution has better burst. Just less sustained damage than ret.
At least that's how it was like... 3 content patches ago, was it now?
Still is, though nerfed by the ShoR change, not sure at ICC gear levels though, may not be anymore. I'd model it, but I don't have the time anymore.
So this is better than ret for its survivability right?
Of course - more mitigation (i.e. Holy Shield) + mor stamina = better survivability. However, 'better' might simply mean that it takes 5 seconds to die, rather than 3 seconds to die, so just to remind you, you're not a tank.
Post by
Squishalot
Aaaaand, we're back!
Due to popular demand, Protribution has been updated for v3.3. New emphasis on PvP combat, two PvP specs to take advantage of Seal of Cleaving (and accordingly, Shield of Righteous Cleaving), and a slightly more thorough explanation of gearing/gemming/profession choices.
Finally, there's a bonus section on why Protribution is the best ganking spec around. With the improvements in gear ilvl resulting in bigger burst, lowbies beware!
Post by
Squishalot
Renamed to try to avoid 'I heard Prot is viable for PvP now...' questions.
Post by
svirve
Got around to reading this, and found a few things.
Remember to have your finger on Hammer of Wrath once they've been knocked down.
As prot you should never ever ever ever use HoW, maybe sub it for HS but nothing else.
I know we're talking PvP, and even then there's only two situations where you could use it. If your target is more than 10 yards away and/or
EVERYTHING
(except HS and cons) else is on CD.
In a one-on-one straight up fight, consider whether you're going to be able to burst them down quickly. If so, you would want to use Seal of Command. For a prolonged fight, none of your stuns will be broken due to damage, so feel free to use Seal of Vengeance.
I thought SoR was the way to go for burst? Could've changed lately but nothing i've heard of.
Also it could be good to mention that SoV is only good for a prolonged fight if you're on the target all the time, SoR/SoC still offers more burst if you're not able to keep the DoT from SoV up.
P.S.
I heard prot is viable for pvp now...
Post by
Squishalot
As prot you should never ever ever ever use HoW, maybe sub it for HS but nothing else.
I know we're talking PvP, and even then there's only two situations where you could use it. If your target is more than 10 yards away and/or EVERYTHING (except HS and cons) else is on CD.
Fair enough. I'll make it clear that it ranks below in the priority. Doesn't it sit above Judgement though?
I thought SoR was the way to go for burst? Could've changed lately but nothing i've heard of.
If I'm not mistaken, SoR is only better if you've specced 5/5 SotP (a la most Ret builds). Quest could possibly clear that up though. I'll add your point about SoV.
Edit: Ok, fixed up cast priorities now. ShoR -> HotR -> HoW -> Judgement at high gear levels. At lower gear levels (eg, starting 80s), HoW -> HotR
Edit 2: Just to make it clear why - HotR scales better with Str and scales with weapon DPS.
HotR: 7 Str (after Divine Strength) = 14AP = +4 damage
HoW: 7 Str = 14AP + 8.4SP = +(14+8.4)*0.15 = +3.36 damage.
Edit 3: Also confirmed on spreadsheet roughly - SoR is only better if you're spec'd into SotP.
Edit 4: Sorry, seal damage only. Judgement damage pwns. There's a 300 damage diff in judgements, but in that time, you'll get an extra 5 seal procs, making it moreorless equivalent in damage, depending on the gear at the time. But because Judgement pwns, SoR wins. I'll change accordingly.
Post by
svirve
As prot you should never ever ever ever use HoW, maybe sub it for HS but nothing else.
I know we're talking PvP, and even then there's only two situations where you could use it. If your target is more than 10 yards away and/or EVERYTHING (except HS and cons) else is on CD.
Fair enough. I'll make it clear that it ranks below in the priority. Doesn't it sit above Judgement though?
If i remember correctly it's below everything at ToC 10/25 gear levels.
Using SoR it's definitely below judgement damage, using SoV it will be slightly lower, SoC i'm not that into so I don't know how it'll compare.
I thought SoR was the way to go for burst? Could've changed lately but nothing i've heard of.
If I'm not mistaken, SoR is only better if you've specced 5/5 SotP (a la most Ret builds). Quest could possibly clear that up though. I'll add your point about SoV.
Sounds reasonable, i've never really bothered looking into SoC since it's more of a ret seal anyways.
Edit: Ok, fixed up cast priorities now. ShoR -> HotR -> HoW -> Judgement at high gear levels. At lower gear levels (eg, starting 80s), HoW -> HotR
Edit 2: Just to make it clear why - HotR scales better with Str and scales with weapon DPS.
HotR: 7 Str (after Divine Strength) = 14AP = +4 damage
HoW: 7 Str = 14AP + 8.4SP = +(14+8.4)*0.15 = +3.36 damage.
Edit 3: Also confirmed on spreadsheet roughly - SoR is only better if you're spec'd into SotP.
Edit 4: Sorry, seal damage only. Judgement damage pwns. There's a 300 damage diff in judgements, but in that time, you'll get an extra 5 seal procs, making it moreorless equivalent in damage, depending on the gear at the time. But because Judgement pwns, SoR wins. I'll change accordingly.
Did you do the math on HoW > Judge?
I'm pretty sure that judgement pwns HoW.
Post by
Squishalot
Did you do the math on HoW > Judge?
I'm pretty sure that judgement pwns HoW.
Not as far as I'm aware. I'm using our old spreads.
A talented Judgement of Righteousness does (1 + 0.2 * AP + 0.32 * SP) * 1.15 (SotP) * 1.166 (increased damage from One Handed Weapon Spec + Crusade)
Hammer of Wrath does 1139 - 1257 + 0.15 * AP + 0.15 * SP * 1.166
So, if (0.05AP + 0.17 SP) * 1.15 > 1197, then Judgement > Hammer of Wrath.
0.05 AP + 0.17 SP > 1041
At 6K AP and 1.5K SP:
6000 * 0.05 + 1500 * 0.17 = 555, meaning that Hammer of Wrath is better. You would basically need about 10k AP for Judgement of Righteousness to be better.
You can apply the same analysis to SoV: 0.33 SP and 0.21 AP.
0.06 AP + 0.18 SP > 1041
... doesn't change very much :P
HoW completely and utterly pwns Judgement. Especially since noone spec's into SotP.
Edit: ... wait, does HoW use spellhit or meleehit? I think we had this discussion before...
Post by
svirve
Edit: ... wait, does HoW use spellhit or meleehit? I think we had this discussion before...
Spellhit, according to the spreadsheet and i'm pretty sure we tested all that we were uncertain of.
Could've changed though, it's been two major patches.
Post by
Squishalot
The sheet I'm using uses melee hit... must've been an older version.
Still pwns Judgement though.
Post by
281980
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Post by
424512
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Post by
232030
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Post by
Squishalot
That's a lot more gear than I'll ever gather :)
Stick with your current rings - Str >>> AP by even more than Ret builds in a Protribution build, because Str -> BV -> ShoR damage. You've got a fair deal of resilience as is, combined with Prot's decent survivability in the first place.
Lavanthor's is fine, from the two sets you've offered, one has an extra 300AP (final) and the other has an extra 520SBV (final). SBV will give you better burst, especially with the increased HotR damage from the 2pc PvE set. I'm actually of the opinion that it'll give you better damage overall too. It's probably worth the crit loss for the general damage output burst (increased ShoR and HotR damage).
The big problem is that you also lose 200 resilience. That's a 'burst' vs 'survivability' thing that you'll need to work out for yourself - which suits your playstyle better. Try with the burst set first - if you find that you're dying too quickly, switch back to your first gearset that you posted... unless you can only get one set, in which case, the burst set will probably be more fun :)
In either case, Libram of the Sacred Shield will give you better single target damage, Libram of Valiance will serve you better when there are multiple targets for lots of proc chances (which is a shame, because then you'd want to use SoC). I would probably go LoSS and use Seal of Righteousness, for the extra judgement damage, especially with the 4pc Furious Gladiator bonus.
Post by
232030
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Post by
Squishalot
Go for burst. Glyph of Judgement would be better than Glyph of SoR. Just remember to glyph for Avenger's Shield for burst and ShoR for mana savings too. 21% crit isn't the end of the world - at least resilience won't play such a big role? Again, that's an offence vs defence playstyle question, and it depends on how happy you are with your survivability with ~500 resilience. Go with whatever you have on hand to start off with, and if you don't like it, but are still willing to invest more into Protribution, then swap trinkets?
LoSS and DC:G together are better than Lavanthor's and LoV. DC:G gives you 56 SBV passive in addition to the 227 AP and 54 SP, plus the proc (at 30% uptime gives those bonuses again). LoSS gives you 450 SBV with 100% uptime, since you'll always have Holy Shield up.
Lavanthor's gives you block rating (not really worth mentioning, given how low your avoidance/block is naturally) and 440 SBV at 33% uptime, or about 145 SBV over the cycle. If you were using SoV, you'd get 200 Str from LoV, which is roughly equal to DC:G, but with less burst. So if it comes down to LoSS vs Lavanthor's, then LoSS wins hands down.
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure how it works past the soft cap, but I know that Warriors currently have much higher diminishing SBV returns than we do, unless we were ninja-nerfed. A bit over the soft cap is ok.
Apologies, I forgot to address Beserking. I think it's probably the best, but I'm not sure what the proc rate / up time is on it (Wowhead comments suggest 45%). 180AP over the cycle. It's pretty much equivalent to using Accuracy as far as weighting is concerned. I'd go for Accuracy, because even if Beserking seems to have better burst (on account of procs), the extra Crit on Accuracy suggests that it'll be that little bit more bursty generally.
Edit: Oops, forgot talents. Crusade + 2pts Conviction > SotP with Seal of Vengeance, and this gap will only get wider with Seal of Righteousness. The burst is nicer with SotP from Judgement, but the extra 6% overall damage to HotR and ShoR should outweigh it significantly.
Post by
424512
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Post by
232030
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Post by
Squishalot
I leaned towards survivability and put Blood Draining on my weapon
That's a very good point. Considering how much benefit 25 crit/hit will actually give you, Blood Draining is probably going to be more useful.
Thanks a ton Squishalot, now all I have to do is farm honor/badges like there's no tomorrow. ;-)
That would be the reason why I don't have the gear, because I don't have the time ;)
Have fun.
Post by
232030
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
1) AP doesn't outweigh the DPS difference.
2) ArPen is even more useless for Prot than for Ret, because it's melee damage only.
3) The difference in crit is partially made up for by higher hit and +22 Agility.
4) Expertise is useful, definitely, but I just can't get past the damage :)
So completely, utterly and totally the blade. :)
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