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Questions: To-hit cap, spirit > intel, frostfire > fireball?
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346872
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292516
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138583
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Post by
twsX
3.
Fireball > Arcane > FFB
Mathematically speaking that is, obviously a skilled FFB mage will beat an i-just-bought-my-epic-mage-on-ebay Fireball mage.
Seing as Arcane is painful to play and Fireball is pretty much the very same like FB, i consider you change to FB, given you have enough hit.
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303016
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Post by
twsX
Seing as Arcane is painful to play
Huh? What's your basis for that remark?
That remark was rather subjective, sorry for being unclear.
It's not terribly "difficult" to play, but just more stressful IMHO.
And, seing as FB/TTW is just as strong with less Mana dependency, butway bigger hit requirements, which i have, i prefer it.
Nothing is as awesome and fun as FFB, though. Only wish it was stronger. :)
Post by
nickseng
huh... So sense when did arcane start beating out ffb again? And btw, I might be behind in theorycrafting, but if you are geared for crit, go ffb. if you're geared for haste and can make up the hit, Fireball/ttw is actualy slightly higher dps. FFB is more burst and mana efficent, but fireball/ttw is more sustained damage.
been a long time sense i've been arcane so i cant help there, but ffb and fireball/ttw rotations are the same. Keep scorch up x5 (if you dont have a lock with imp shadowbolt). keep living bomb up. FFB filler, and pyroblast on hotstreak proc. Generally it is higher dps to refresh living bomb before pyro. nver interupt a cast to cast pyro though.
I think you're missing the difference in FFB and FB. that would be the whole FFB/FB nuke difference.
Arcane has been beating FFB for a while. But since I can remember (around 3.0.3) I was always beating FFB as arcane. IDK, maybe they just didn't know.
These days, no matter how much crit you have Fb/ttw > ffb. FFB is only above frost in dps.
With enough Ulduar gear, FFB has been shown on paper to overtake Arcane. It'll only get worse when better gears drop.
Post by
twsX
O rly?
What's the math there?
Not saying you're wrong, it's just that looking at the most successful raiding guilds, i only see FB/TTW and Arcane mages, none FFB.
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292516
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Post by
nickseng
Nickseng, amidst our constant exchange of sarcastic comments I've grown to respect you. But I must say, paper doesn't mean anything. According to paper I was supposed to have 6.5k dps pre-3.1. According to paper Yogg+0 was impossible. According to paper.. I've got nothing else.
Feel free to disagree. :)
In fact, that's why I've specifically put in "in paper" in, because as we know, it's not always applicable to real life situation, but it is always a good place to start.
The fact is, FFB and FB both scales much better with gear than Arcane. Even if they don't out-dps Arcane now, they will soon when better gear becomes available. You can see this by seeing how much each point of stat means to Arcane compared to the other 2.
The other reason is because so much of Ulduar gear is aimed directly at FB and FFB. There are so much hit and crit in those gears, and Arcane makes very poor use of them. You can always say that Arcane has the choice of not using them, but in the end, you'd lose out as well.
For example, if your current gear has say:
+ 200sp and + 56 haste rating.
and gears in ulduar has
+ 210 sp and +80 crit
Do you upgrade? If you don't, and the FFB mage does, than it's obvious he will get better gears than you. If you do, well then, you just lost some haste in exchange for some stat you don't particularly care for. It's worse when the gear in question has hit.
This is why I've always pushed for scaling and better itemization for Arcane. They might be fine now (and they certainly are), but they won't be in the future.
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292516
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Post by
Achloryn
Well, you've convinced me. I never thought of it with the opposition between crit and haste for arcane, and how ulduar is aimed for fb/ffb.
Perhaps the trial of the crusader will bring new hope for us.
ulduar
gear
is better aimed for fb/ffb specs because of the insane amounts of hit and crit that are dripping off of them. haste is still there, but you'll find far more crit and hit rating, and as we all know... once you reach hit cap, hit rating is point for point, a waste.
i wouldn't expect much from the crusader gear.. that seems to be laden with crit as well. and the t9 bonuses are much more favorable for fire/frostfire too. i'll try to find it and re-post the exact bonuses in a few minutes.
edit: here it is
Item - Mage T9 2P Bonus - Increases the armor you gain from Ice Armor by 20%, the mana regeneration you gain from Mage Armor by 10%, and converts an additional 15% of your spirit into critical strike rating when Molten Armor is active.
Item - Mage T9 4P Bonus (Fireball, Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and Arcane Blast) - Increases the critical strike chance of your Fireball, Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, Arcane Missiles, and Arcane Blast spells by 5%.
(source: mmo-champion.com)
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292516
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