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Future Patch Analysis
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Post by
292516
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Post by
nickseng
Mage
* Arcane Blast: The buff from using this ability now stacks up to 4 times instead of 3, and each application increases mana cost by 130% instead of 200%.
Arcane
* Missile Barrage: The effect from triggering this talent now removes the mana cost of Arcane Missiles. In addition, the chance for Arcane Blast to trigger this talent is now 8/16/24/32/40%. All other listed spells continue to have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to trigger it.
WORDS... CAN... NOT... EXPRESS... *little girl scream and faint*
At 1st read, Holy Crap!
At 2nd read, Holy Crap!
At 3rd read ... ok, I'm a little calm now. A wee bit disappointed, since this will further push Arcane to a 2 button rotation. I was hoping they would buff ABarr in some way, so that it would be included in our rotations, but still, it's a nice dps buff.
Takolin is partly right though, this does make our rotations more monotonous, since at full stack, AB only costs 520% more mana, as opposed to 600% more mana previously. It's still more challenging than Fire, as we still have the capability to control our dps. We will see how much longer this reduction will allow us to burn.
Couple of thoughts though. How much of a dps increase will this be? With this change, the buff can be stacked up to 72%, which is a huge amount. On the other hand, it will take much longer to stack.
Hopefully EJ will have calculations up soon. :)
Post by
nickseng
Source (EJ)
I just added 3.2.2 support for Mages into r3111 (Rawr).The initial implementation allows all Arcane spells to benefit from the full stack. ... the result is that Arcane is beating out deep Fire in my testing.
Something tells me the Blizz is gonna pull back some of the buffs before it makes it to live.
Post by
79146
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
I don't get disappointed in people's opinions. :)
I don't really agree with you there, Open, though I see where you're coming from. There are ways to buff ABarr without it affecting PVP that much.
And even if the reverted the coefficient of ABarr back to 3.0, will it honestly make Arcane mages OP? From what I've read, now that most ppl are geared (ie. resilience), it's still not gonna hit for a whole lot more.
I've been a strong advocate for buffing ABarr, because it seems such a shame that a cool spell like that doesn't get used that often, but I've always kept in mind the PVP implications. What I don't agree is that buffing it will make it OP in PVP. (of course, i'm not advocating a huge damage boost to it. Plenty of suggestions include DoTs, debuffs, etc. Just anything to give it a use in PVE) :)
Post by
nickseng
Oh, and another quote from Lhivera in EJ.
The changes have already been incorporated into SimCraft. It simply casts Arcane Blast without limit until Missile Barrage procs, then uses the proc, regardless of stack size. I tried setting it to use a 4xBlast/1xMissiles rotation, but that lost a couple % DPS.
The results in simcraft's BiS T8 gear, using Fire as the comparison point:
8029: 57/3/11 (+3.3%)
7775: 20/51/0
7714: 53/18/0 (-0.8%)
7288: 0/53/18 (-6.3%)
6491: 18/0/53 (-16.5%)
6484: 18/0/52 (-16.6%, no Brain Freeze)
I'm doing another run that'll include scale factors, but it'll take a little longer. I'll post them when it's done; I know a lot of Arcane Mages are worried about crit scaling still.
So, is raid utility still a significant concern? Or is a 3.some % advantage enough to justify the lack?
Last edited by Lhivera : 08/15/09 at 3:35 AM.
Post by
nickseng
From Kavan
I've updated Rawr to calculate optimal cycles for 3.2.2 mode and here are the results (barring any modeling mistakes of course):
Cycle Code Legend: 0 = AB, 1 = ABar, 2 = AM
State Descriptions: ABx,ABary,MBz+-
x = number of AB stacks
y = remaining cooldown on Arcane Barrage
z = remaining time on Missile Barrage
+ = Missile Barrage proc visible
- = Missile Barrage proc not visible
0: AB0,ABar0,MB0-
1: AB0,ABar1.889018,MB0-
2: AB1,ABar0.1107148,MB0-
3: AB2,ABar0,MB0-
4: AB3,ABar0,MB0-
5: AB4,ABar0,MB0-
6: AB4,ABar0,MB13.2217+
7: AB0,ABar1.889018,MB12.11071+
8: AB1,ABar0.1107148,MB0.3335742+
9: AB2,ABar0,MB0.7772349+
10: AB3,ABar0,MB13.2217+
11: AB1,ABar0,MB0-
000000000000: 7504.282 dps, 533.9412 mps
000000200000: 7382.185 dps, 127.9105 mps
000000200200: 7286.839 dps, 96.93806 mps
000000200220: 7231.925 dps, 81.76521 mps
000002200220: 6970.63 dps, 32.07115 mps
000020100220: 6690.556 dps, 6.533432 mps
000200100200: 6256.718 dps, -19.85495 mps
Wand: 450.199 dps, -219.6065 mps
What does this mean?
First it means that the highest dps is actually AB spam not using barrage procs. The reason for this is that it takes quite a bit to restack AB and you'll almost always reset. However AB spam with MBAM on 4 stack is ~100 dps lower but extremely more mana efficient. Going further down the lines we get AB spam with MBAM on 2 or 4 stack, AB spam with MBAM on 2,3 or 4 stack. Then we have AB4AM with MBAM on 2,3 or 4 stack. The last 2 cycles are then lowering the stacking, first AB3AM with MBAM on 2 or 3 stack and last AB2AM. Note that ABAM is no longer an optimal cycle.
Comparing to 3.2 the
ABSpam4MBAM will be the main cycle
as it is more efficient than the current dpm cycles AB3AM or AB3ABar3MBAM.
The new dps cycle will be AB spam. The dpm conversion in 3.2 was about 2.528, with the above we're looking at dpm conversion of
0.3
which is absolutely horrible
. This means that you can more or less forget about any dynamic nature that we had so far. Yes you'll be able to use AB spam to get a tiny bit extra, but it'll be almost unnoticeable.
Even though we'll gain in dps it's a sad state for arcane playstyle
.
Am I a bad person for being disappointed by the buff we're getting?
Post by
Achloryn
I don't get disappointed in people's opinions. :)
I don't really agree with you there, Open, though I see where you're coming from. There are ways to buff ABarr without it affecting PVP that much.
And even if the reverted the coefficient of ABarr back to 3.0, will it honestly make Arcane mages OP? From what I've read, now that most ppl are geared (ie. resilience), it's still not gonna hit for a whole lot more.
I've been a strong advocate for buffing ABarr, because it seems such a shame that a cool spell like that doesn't get used that often, but I've always kept in mind the PVP implications. What I don't agree is that buffing it will make it OP in PVP. (of course, i'm not advocating a huge damage boost to it. Plenty of suggestions include DoTs, debuffs, etc. Just anything to give it a use in PVE) :)
i like the idea of a DoT of some kind. i couldn't see them working a debuff into the mix unless it was something that had a slowing effect... maybe remove that silly spell from the arcane tree altogether and make it a debuff on the target or something.
Another way to change ABarr would be to make the glyph much more useful. Mana reduction isn't gonna make it reappear in our rotations pve wise, and it's only modestly helpful in pvp (especially with the mana survivability we're looking to get in this next patch). If the glyph were to have a chance to stun (a la the old version of the death and decay glyph) or increased crit chance maybe it would be better.
i dunno. i'm extremely tired and my brainstorming isn't as good as it usually is at the time. XD
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
293902
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Post by
Godwolf
So...
What you're telling me is....
We've waited almost a year for arcane to be put RIGHT back where it was in BC? Nothing but spamming AB and making sure you have the mp5 to maintain it? But now with new and improved Arcane Missiles every 8 seconds or so?
Thanks, Blizzard.
As to arcane in PvP, get off it. IT was NEVER that strong in arena. NEVER. There was no retardedly high representation of mages, there was no "ZOMG SO STRONGGGG" stuff going on. Just a bunch of melee people who couldn't handle the fact that they couldn't do more damage with instant attacks than a caster could. This coming from a player who played frost during the time of the arcane stupidity.
Also, rememember this was a time when every single competitive class was blowing Naxx geared players up in two globals. By wearing Naxx gear. No resil and complaining about damage.... Okay.
Bah @ this change. Bah @ Blizzard. Someone in their development teams needs to roll a damn mage. I'm seeing way too many indications that Blizzard has no idea what to do with mages that someone else couldn't do my just looking at their spells and talents on a piece of paper
BAH!
Post by
79146
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Post by
293902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
this won't come near solveing all the issues. it's just an idea that i think will help with 2 things.
1. arcane raid utility
2. get Abarr into the rotation in pve
and it is this:
Give Abarr the same buff as both scorch. 1%crit chance for all stells and stack 5 times.
this may change the rotation to either AB>AB>AB>AB>AM>Abarr when necessary to refresh or to AB>AB>AB>AB>Abarr. i dont' know which is better for dmg, nor will i do any math on a hypothetical.
and again, this isn't really a cure, but it would help. also nice for pvp.
That might work, but it also makes Arcane the worst at applying the debuff, since you need 12 seconds to set it up.
Post by
365547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
Unless they change both abar and scorch to a 5% crit in 1 application when talented. This way fire gets something as well. If a lock can get in 1 cast, why can't we without gimping our dps with the scorch glyph.
Probably because a Warlock gimps his dps by casting Shadowbolt as well (by speccing into a lower dps spec) :)
Post by
292516
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Post by
79146
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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