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Abortion Debate
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Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
That has nothing to do with anything I've said though, sorry.
It came off like you were telling MyTie he didn't have the right grieve for the loss of his unborn child, and that it really only effected his wife.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
I know there are plenty of people who want to have kids, and can't have them. And I mourn with them but it doesn't change the fact that man has nothing to do with a womans body. I am in no way saying I don't feel with Mytie's wife, I have nothing against her, I do not doubt miscarriage is horrible, that doesn't change that it is her body, not anybody elses. I don't see how this is nasty at all?
Saying a woman's body belongs to a woman and what is inside her is inside her and no one else is distasteful and nasty? How the hell? Please explain this to me., hatguymanmodwhateveryounameis.
Since you asked for it, I will tell you. Even in this post, I see nothing that indicates to me, that you think a man has any attachments to something he help make. Women's egg, Man's sperm, two parts that make one whole, which then is carried with great care for 9 months by a woman, but I feel that because you think that it's in a woman, a man has no right to be attached to it. I just don't see that in your posts.
So I say it's nasty when Mytie in rare form expresses a weakness on such a sensitive topic as having experienced a miscarriage with his wife and family, and you continue to debate your point with out any empathy for another view point. You don't need to agree with him, you can keep expressing yourself, but lack of empathy is what I find nasty.
A couple I know just recently had a miscarriage 4 months in. They already have a 3 year old daughter, and when they told the rest of the world about their good news, they also told her. They gave her a pink shirt which says "big sister" in sparkle letters. They are healthy, and will try again, but the little girl still cried when they explained to her that she wasn't going to be a big sister yet. She cried, because she wasn't going to be one, she doesn't understand the totally of what happened, but she still cried.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
But the original comment was in regards to emotion. You said MyTie was making it about himself in response to his statement about how the loss of his child hurt him and how he didn't like the way you were phrasing "creepy alien thing".
I also wanna point out that a pro life individual doesn't consider a fetus part of the woman's body. They consider it a separate child.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
I'M NOT TALK ABOUT EMOTIONS AT ALL. Only body. I say BODY in every sentence why can't you read?
Calm down. It takes time to post what we write, and it takes time to read what others write. Just because I post something after you write the same thing in every line doesn't mean I can't read. This is why I always quote what I'm responding to.
There is no meaningful debate going on here, I would suggest you take some time, walk away from the computer or do something else, and then reread the last 2 pages and try and express yourself better, because everyone is saying the same thing, because we all read what you wrote the same way.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
They consider it a separate child.
You can prove with DNA that the two beings are separate, unique, living, and human.
Post by
Gone
Actually I remember a bunch of people sticking up for you after that and telling a certain somebody else off for following you into the bin with the issue.
I'm not trying to be a #$%^ here, but the fact that everybody has been telling you your comment went too far is probably a good indicator that it did. I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it sounded, but that's the way it came off as. Being hostile to everybody isn't going to earn you any allies here.
Post by
Ksero
quoting becuase it got lost in the above,
1)Imposing your morals on another group is wrong.
2)Denying a woman a chance to get an abortion is imposing your morals on them.
3)Therefore, denying the woman the chance to get an abortion is wrong.
I understand that the pro-life stance thinks the woman is imposing her morals on the fetus, which they view as having the same rights as someone who has been born. The problem is, a fetus is not a newborn, physiologically (see what i said earilier), they are different, to say they are the same is literal untruth.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Elura, the major disagreement here is whether or not you are just talking about bodies.
If you are pro-choice, it's what a woman is doing to her own body.
If you are pro-life, it is what she is doing to someone else's body.
That's what we're trying to explain. You think that people misunderstand you because you are talking about abortion, we they're talking about children. What is actually happening, is you are misunderstanding their belief about what abortion is in the first place- two people. A woman and a child.
I know you don't consider them two people, but you should understand that people who are Pro-Life DO, To ask them over and over why they are talking about children when you are just talking about bodies relies on the assumption that they agree with you that that you are just talking about bodies. They don't. If you want to debate that, then that's what this thread is for. But you should understand that they do understand you - they just completely disagree.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
1)Imposing your morals on another group is wrong
There's really nothing about a moral code, nor religion, nor anything like that. It's simply quite unacceptable to allow people to kill each other, especially innocent people. That much should be dictated by empathy, not some code we want to hold each other to.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
quoting becuase it got lost in the above,
1)Imposing your morals on another group is wrong.
2)Denying a woman a chance to get an abortion is imposing your morals on them.
3)Therefore, denying the woman the chance to get an abortion is wrong.
I understand that the pro-life stance thinks the woman is imposing her morals on the fetus, which they view as having the same rights as someone who has been born. The problem is, a fetus is not a newborn, physiologically (see what i said), they are different, to say they are the same is literal untruth.
The argument is not that they are completely the same- it is that they are both humans and both children, and should be treated as such. There are physical differences between an infant and a toddler as well. One is made of a lot less cells than the other, and looks different- less developed. A toddler left alone in a house for a week might be mobile enough to find food and water and live, and infant would just die. A toddler has more cognitive ability, understands more and is more measurably intelligent than an infant. But one is not afforded more rights or considered less human than the other.
I have in the past gone through all of the differences people use to explain why a fetus is different than a child, and how if you evaluate those same differences in other settings, none of them have an effect on how human we consider someone. The only one left standing is that they had not physically been born yet, and there was no reason as to WHY that meant they were not human.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
Why don't we all take like an hour and not post in here anymore? Emotions are obviously high. It's pretty apparent that several people got tweaked by the original comment, this obviously has personal implications for MyTie, and Elura probably thinks everybody is ganging up on her.
Lets just take the hour, drop this particular tangent, then come back and discuss the actual issue of abortion after we all cool off.
Post by
hatman555
I've expressed myself perfectly fine, I'm not gonna walk away from the computer when people who can't r ead are calling me distasteful and nasty. And what's with you mods assuming someone is not calm because they use caps lock? I used it to make it clear that is what I'm talking about since it's apprently not clear otherwise. And I'm not going to step away because you think I should when I have done literally nothing wrong here.
In a forum, a world dominated by words. Caps locks and bold are often associated with yelling, increase volume, or other additional expressive behavior. It's extra, it's more than just normal typing, so when people read it, they read it in that manner. saying "I used it to make it clear" is exactly right, people read stuff in louder tones more clearly. If you want to make a point clear, I would suggest separating it from something else, or just posting it alone.
It works even when its not in caps.
So yes, I assume your not calm, because you are being very combative.
I've expressed myself perfectly fine
Many of us disagree.
And I've said like 500 times I'm sad that happened to him but I'm not gonna change my mind or end the debate because he shared a sad story? If you said you felt for him in other pages, I must have missed it because it's hard to read 41 pages of a topic. And as I said in my other post, you don't need to change your debate. All you need to do is phrase it better, so that on a sesitive topic like this people don't read things the wrong way.
You wrote:
"I find it highly disrespectful that you even attempt to make it about yourself."
We read:
"I find it disrespectful that you care about your lost child
You meant:
"I find it highly disrespectful that you make a women's right to choose about yourself"
I would advise EVERYONE to use nouns and full subjects instead of pronouns and small works like "it" It will cut down on confusion.
Cheers,
Hat.
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