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PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Abortion Debate
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Post by
172996
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Post by
260787
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
And just because MyTie is pro-life doesn't mean that people that view pro-choice are wrong.
But the very point of having a debate assumes that one party
is
wrong. You think your view is right and his is wrong, he thinks yours is wrong and his is right. So yes, everyone that says anything against MyTie's views is wrong in his eyes,
unless you can convince him otherwise
, ie win the debate.
Post by
172996
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Post by
327953
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Post by
MyTie
Since this is becoming less of a debate on abortion and a more "me versus you" debate, which is a quick road to flames, I am going to remove myself from the debate until it gets back on topic. I would ask that the other parties involved do the same.
Thanks.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
But there is no real right or wrong answer to this.
That's exactly the point that is being debated with abortion. Pro-lifers believe that there is a right and wrong answer, whereas pro-choicers do not believe that abortion falls under the category of morally right or wrong. You can't escape that fact.
I have never said his view is wrong.
I never said that you did. What you did say was "And just because MyTie is pro-life doesn't mean that people that view pro-choice are wrong." And I'm saying, if you are pro-life, then yes anyone who is pro-choice is wrong. Pro-choicers have a hard time understanding this because being pro-choice does not similarly make you necessarily "anti-pro-life."
Why do people think that there has to be a "winner" and a "loser" in these debates? This isn't debate class, nor is there a judge to determine a "winner." This is simply a thread to discuss different points of view. There are no winners or losers.
Is there a point to debate, if nothing changes as a result? The only reason anyone would start a debate and/or reply in one is that either he isn't convinced of his own opinions and wants to see if they can be proven wrong, or he is so sure of his opinion that he is willing to take his time to help others see the truth.
Edited for grammar
Post by
393249
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Post by
kattib
Just going to throw my 2c in this, in my opinion I have always felt that this being a very controversial subject that each family (or woman) should be allowed to decide for themselves if they wish to have this child or not. It is fine if you dont support when people have abortions, that is your view but others may have a different view and that should be their choice.
Post by
MyTie
Since this is becoming less of a debate on abortion and a more "me versus you" debate, which is a quick road to flames, I am going to remove myself from the debate until it gets back on topic. I would ask that the other parties involved do the same.
Thanks.
But if we all do that, then who will get it back on topic? :p
Somebody who replies again using the OP formatting will get us back on topic. I formed it in such a way to promote new and fresh replies without flames.
I would encourage someone who hasn't done so to use that format.
Post by
172996
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Post by
MyTie
I understand you, Zaputo. I respect your views. I don't agree with them, but I do understand what you are saying, and can empathize with your opinions. I do think we should try to stay on topic of abortion, and not debating what a debate is, or right vs wrong. We should try to keep this on topic.
As for there being no 'right' or 'wrong', that may not be correct. I believe that there could be a right answer, and therefore a wrong answer, just like there could be no right or wrong answer. I think that this can be a very healthy and interesting debate. However, we must refrain from talking about other people directly, other than to direct our observations to eachother, in order to keep this flame free.
Thanks for your input. Even though I don't agree with it, I still value it.
Post by
307945
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Post by
393249
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Post by
327953
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Post by
MyTie
I'd still be curious what your answer is to this, MyTie. You kind of deflected into a hypothetical scenario yesterday.
If there is a 100% chance the mother will die if the child is allowed to carry to term, should she not have the right to terminate the pregnancy as soon as she knows that?
My answer is no.
I expect an outpouring of opposition to this, which is understandable. Even I think that it is a little extreme of me. But, I firmly believe that man should not take the life of a person to save another person, even if the second one is already doomed.
In a similar question, I wouldn't go back in time and abort Hitler. Murder is always murder. Murder is always wrong. You compromise a bit of yourself if you feel that it is not only justifiable, but that YOU are an authority on justifying it.
Edit: And of course, Pudge's point. This is all speculation, and illogical speculation.
Post by
172996
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Post by
MyTie
I would pose a question to MyTie...
I have gone back and reread the entire thread and have a question. Would you rather your wife died than abort an unborn child? I understand your view that abortion is murder, but wouldn't it technically be murder by your child if your wife dies due to the pregnancy? Emotions play a big part in the decision. I would rather an unborn child be aborted than a woman that I loved enough to marry die, just so I can stand behind my morals and not abort the unborn child. I think that it would be harder to get over the death of my wife that I've known for X years, than get over the death of my unborn child that I don't have a history with. Besides you and your wife would still have the possibility of creating another child. You can't create another Mrs. MyTie.
Very good question Zaputo. I don't know if I can offer a 'right' answer to the situation, just what I would do. This would obviously depend a lot on what my wife wanted to do. I can only offer MY opinions. Let me break it up, since it seems there are a few questions:Would you rather your wife died than abort an unborn child?I believe a woman dieing during pregnancy is a natural death, and an abortion is murder. Therefore, the less distasteful ending is for my wife to die instead of getting an abortion.I understand your view that abortion is murder, but wouldn't it technically be murder by your child if your wife dies due to the pregnancy?Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. Since an unborn baby has little cognitive ability, it can't premediate anything: So, no.Besides you and your wife would still have the possibility of creating another childWe could create a million babies. We would never create THAT child again. He would be dead. We would have been the ones to kill him.You can't create another Mrs. MyTie.I will never disagree with you here. She is one of a kind. She is a woman who is unparalleled by any other woman I have ever met. I couldn't ask for a better wife to me, a companion in life, and a mother to my children. She is patient, loving, and brave. There has never been, nor will there be, a woman who is a better match to me.
Post by
172996
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Post by
MyTie
Zaputo-
The ability to create any number of lives does not justify the taking of a single life.
If my wife disagreed with me and choose to abort, then I would talk to her about her decision. If she would not be swayed from her position, then she would get an abortion and there is nothing I could do about it. I would disagree with her, but I wouldn't hold it against her. I wouldn't punish my wife for her decision. I would feel that it would be my responsibility, to my child, to make sure she were aware of how strongly I opposed her opinion.
Mrs.MyTie is just a lot like Mr.MyTie, only a bit less... uh... she's just... nicer... than I am. However, most of our opinions are alike. In the cases where we disagree, we compromise. In the rare cases where we cannot compromise, we agreed before we got married that my judgement would be the one we would take. In all the time we have been married, this has only happened once or twice. We are both very accomodating to eachother's views and wishes.
Edit: As for the boat situation.. the LOGICAL answer: Ration the water for yourself and either let the toddler die, or kill the toddler to spare it the pain of dieing from dehydration. The MORAL answer: Either there isn't one, or the one my wife gave.
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