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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Disc - too much Haste / MP5, not enough Crit
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Post by
cawfee
'ello!
As a
Disc Priest
, I have always taken the path of picking up any viable and relevant upgrade that I could find in both regular and 25-man Raids, but here's my issue: It all has Haste and MP5 on it. Currently I am sitting at 248 Haste and 528 Mana Regen without Raid buffs, and as consequence at a sad 18% Crit chance; I've
cobbled together a list
of viable up- / sidegrades for me but can only hope for lucky drops and /rolls for those to actually become part of my setup (not to mention I have Warlocks and Mages rolling on all the Crit gear as well).
While I do fairly well in most groups I am a bit worried that I might be hurting my purpose, and am wondering if it would be feasible to actually downgrade from some Haste items to Crit-heavy ones or even switch to Holy until I find enough Crit gear to make up for it all.
I have yet to run into mana issues so I know I can compromise a bit on the mp5 (especially seeing as 3.2 will buff the overall value by another ~25%), but I'd like to hear what others recommend or if they have the same problems that I'm facing and how they're tackling it C:
Thanks for all your comments and feedback!
Post by
Haxxer
This
would be your armory, and by the looks, it sure looks good. For your information, your holy crit is at 23.39%.
Hover over your crit % and you'll see this. This is perfectly fine in my opinion. With an elemental shaman and a boomkin, you'd have well over 30%.
Post by
56987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
turkey
I'd love to see your armory Abzoloot.
Post by
cawfee
This
would be your armory, and by the looks, it sure looks good. For your information, your holy crit is at 23.39%.
Hover over your crit % and you'll see this. This is perfectly fine in my opinion. With an elemental shaman and a boomkin, you'd have well over 30%.
You know, now I feel kind of stupid. I've played this game for many years and never actually realized there's different Crit for each spell category. Lesson learned.
Post by
ande9249
most disc priests shy away from haste simply because of borrowed time and the talent that gives us a base of 6%, but if you really want to shoot for "50% haste" at the expense of crit, take off your three points in divine aegis, and go deeper into holy or something, because by the time you get there, you probably wont be criting enough to make DA worth it. 10-15% haste outside of Borrowed time is probably a good goal, but not as necessary in my opinion.
everything said on regen is true :)
Post by
Haxxer
I'd love to see your armory Abzoloot.
I would also like to.
Post by
karlusdavius
50% haste = don't bother
10% = yes, bother
Having a talent giving us haste is not reliable. As you may have to spam heal as times and your WS debuff might be up on that target. Aiming for 10% haste gives a nice (and very easily obtainable) buffer incase this is the problem, without sacrificing too much crit.
Gem for spellpower. Regen comes with more gear, so dont bother geming for it.
Post by
56987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Paolo
As for my armory, there's only 1 Abzoloot in the whole of WoW, but yeah, it's my horde rogue. If you want to critique a disc priest with a "bad spec" and "weird gear choices," check out
Felwynn
.
Oh yeah. He's rotten. Only killed Algalon twice on 10man, once on 25. Fair to assume he logged out wearing killer gear and the essence of gossamer for a reason...and that his disc spec is special purpose (no PI).
But it would be more fun to see
your
armory! To be fair, here's
mine
. Go to town.
Post by
Aldones
Until you hit 50% haste it is worth far more than crit to a disc priest. Every 2-3 seconds you should be casting an instant cast spell, and waiting 1.2-1.5 seconds per cast to be able to do cast again is a huge drag on your affect.
Most well geared disc priests I know tend to have about 300-500 (9.15-15.25%) haste and 25-30% holy crit. Disc priests also get 6% via talents and BT gives 25% (which should only be used on Penance or PoH). Wrath of Air Totem gives 5% haste, ret pallies give 3%, as well as moonkins.
Fully buffed you will have:
10% (haste rating)
6% (talents)
5% (totem)
3% (ret aura)
3% (moonkin aura)
**Note I'm only using buffs that have a 100% uptime**
Since haste is cumulative, a 1.5s flash heal would look like: 1.5 * * .94 * .95 * .97 * .97 = xx seconds.
0 haste = 1.260 sec FHeal
164 haste (5%) = 1.197 sec FHeal
328 haste (10%) = 1.134 sec FHeal
492 haste (15%) = 1.071 sec FHeal
656 haste (20%) = 1.008 sec FHeal
With that in mind, I'd consider the soft cap for haste to be at 20%. Anything beyond that and you'll just be sitting waiting on a GCD (we already do w/ heroism/bloodlust in play).
Post by
179389
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZoraLink
I'm with abzo.
Go for Spellpower/Int > Haste > Crit
Spirit = Mp5 doesn't really matter
You're GCD capped more than anything else so reduce it.
If you can't force yourself OOM using your best spells, then you need more throughput.
Um. Not really. I don't stack int or Mp5 or anything. I go with whatever gives me the most MP5, regardless of whether or not it's spirit or MP5. I try to balance my stats as much as possible as well. Prioritizing spellpower/int over haste and crit is just going to gimp you in the long run.
Try to BALANCE everything as much as possible. Get hybrid gems and go for socket bonuses.
Basically I do: Spellpower = crit = haste = Int.
Seriously, it works perfectly. Spellpower naturally comes with gear, and using gems that are hybrid of spellpower and either crit or haste works for me. Trying to reduce the global cooldown with obscene amounts of haste because of our instant casts is just silly. About half of the spells I use are instant cast, but that certainly doesn't make it worth it to stack haste like mad. Crit is your friend, I love stacking DA, half the time my overhealing is more than a paladin's but I never run OOM. Tanks love me for it. They rarely go below 75% and that's only if they have a string of unlucky hits on them, more often they're almost always 95% and up.
Post by
179389
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
233098
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ande9249
Don't get me wrong, 50% haste is a ridiculous ideal to aim for. My point should have been pretty clear in a thread asking "what is too much haste" and "what is too little crit" that any amount of haste over 50% only affects casting time, and with as many instant cast spells as a disc priest SHOULD be using(PW:S cannot crit and is the most important spell we have), haste should be valued above crit, and I'm pretty sure that any 3.1 weight scale values it as such.
Also, take note that Intellect, which makes up ~75% of your regeneration by itself, will also give ~10% crit strike, Weakened soul, Focused Will, and moderate raid buffs will put you at 22-25% holy crit, assuming you get 0 from your gear.
Haste shouldn't be avoided, but crit doesn't NEED to be stacked in order to crit enough for 100% inspiration uptime.
And while PW:S and renew cant crit, and are important, every other spell I use CAN crit, some might argue that they would rather have Penance crit more often, then have it be fractions of a second faster due to the DA bonus's.
Inspiration, in my mind is just candy, because I often crit a flash heal on a DPS, and what are they going to do with Inspiration pre 3.2, not too much usually (however with the 3.2 change, it will be pretty nice to know that those who cant watch a dps meter will be shielded a little by that ability)
Now the conclusion of this thread is ultimately "balance" but I will always lean a little to crit myself, simply because I have talents that require it to happen, nothing but your mana bar going empty, or patch, requires you cast things faster.
Post by
turkey
Once you get a sufficient level of gearing it is unbelievably difficult to go OOM as disc. When viewing gear I've been trying to minimize my regen stats and go for only throughput stats for months. Gear will inevitably come with int/spi/mp5 and that should be sufficient.
This comment interests me because I just experienced this myself. I actually tried three different solutions: gemming pure spell power, gemming haste, and gemming int.
As far as my output was concerned, the first two solutions proved fairly insubstantial versus gemming int. It was incredibly potent for a simple reason: shield spamming raid damage. With a large mana pool, I can toss around TONS of shields every cd I can spare away from the tank, as long as my mana allows. If you have your four piece set, you're probably doing this already.
I look forward to the day I can keep my tank up and PW:S everyone I can without ooming. As of right now, I have to be careful with my mana when doing so.
And since I asked Abzoloot for his earlier, here's my
Armory
. I know it was a bit snarky to ask you for it, but your first post contained enough comments about "bad priests" that "play disc wrong" for me to be curious as to who you were to be such an authority.
Post by
karlusdavius
Having haste is not meant to get you GCD capped. Its meant to lower the channeling time of your most important spell, Penance.
Remember that the
Borrowed Time
buff given by this spell
does not
get consumed when using Penance. Therefore, if possible, you should use penance first (which is usually the case when tank healing) followed by which ever spell seems logical to use (usually Flash Heal or PoH if required)
Pushing for 10% - 15% haste is a good idea for situations where
Weakened Soul
is active on your target and you cannot get
Borrowed Time
. Having 10% - 15% haste can give a little buffer for those circumstances.
However, with that in mind, you should never have more haste rating, heck i would even go as far as to say that your haste rating should never be as half of your crit rating.
Divine Aegis
is an exceptional talent that allows discipline priests to be the best tank healers. The mitigation we offer is the reason that all tanks love having one of us behind them. For that reason and with this talent alone, crit should be king.
Putting the points of this post together, its kind of simple to see that both are important. Crit allows you to proc your most loved and cherished talent, while the haste you have allows that talent to be able to proc more often, since we can cast faster spells. However, haste should never be moe than half your crit rating, its just not needed.
hope this clears things up.
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