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Reckoning about Reckoning
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Post by
135622
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
1.
Reckoning uptime
2a.
It's far from third best TPS talent. Probably third worst TPS talent
2b.
Physical damage will give you 1dmg == 1 threat since we have no modifier that increases the threat gained from normal physical damage. Unless you're running with SoR or SoB (and if you do you're going to lose TPS anyways (maybe gain like 50-100 with SoB depending on your hit/expertise)). And in the odd occasion that you get a reckoning proc on the first blow by the boss you'll get your SoV stacks up quicker and maybe gain like 100-200 threat.
3.
I am king
4.
There are a ton of other places to put the talent points.
5.
It relies on you taking damage or blocking attacks, and lets face it even if we can block we really do want as much avoidance as possible.
That's all i can think of right now. Reckoning is great when soloing and leveling but it's nothing for a tank. And if you're talking about TPS you should put a post-it on your screen where the reckoning talent is (also write FU on the post-it for laughs).
Post by
135622
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dunsinane
The math for 3.2:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?p=456909#p456909
I've always been fairly certain that Reckoning was a downrated talent. I recently ended up in a discussion with a friend of mine however, which assumingly had read quite a lot about Protection specs and the similar, who told me the opposite
Reading a lot about Protection specs doesn't automatically help. One needs merely flip through the typical forum and see some of the complete nonsense that people promote without a lick of support as gospel truth to have done a lot of reading on the subject. One could go through the builds on Wowwiki, a supposedly informational site, and be woefully misinformed about builds as the editorial philosophy is to leave even complete and utter trash builds up until a new patch alters the talent tree.
Understanding is far more useful. When you can explain why a particular talent is better than another, then you're in good shape.
Mathematically, Reckoning is the worst threat talent we have at level 80. The changes to SoV on the PTR make it more competitive, but the 2.72x threat multiplier paladins receive to threat only affects Holy damage. As a result, most of the actual damage Reckoning does will not receive any multiplier at all and it falls well behind abilities such as Crusade and Touched by the Light.
This does not mean "never take Reckoning". If you are leveling as Prot, Reckoning is an excellent talent for AoE grinding because of the extra seal procs that will keep you alive. If you are going for a maximum threat build at 80, the three optional points at the top of the Prot tree that need to be assigned to move past Blessing of Sanctuary have to go somewhere - and Reckoning is the only threat talent on the menu.
Post by
GenXCub
As a result, most of the actual damage Reckoning does will not receive any multiplier at all and it falls well behind abilities such as Crusade and Touched by the Light.
I don't know if we want to compare it to Crusade or Touched by the light though.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0xA0uGusIufdts0x0h
That's a cookie cutter prot, but taking 3 points in Reckoning. Those 3 points have to go into either Reckoning, Divinity, Stoicism, Imp HoJ, or Divine Sacrifice to get to Tier 6 talents. So shouldn't it be compared against just those other talents, and no others?
This isn't to say it's a good talent to take as prot, I just don't feel Touched or Crusade is a fair comparison, since every Prot build will already have Touched, and you can't get crusade without sacrificing other deep prot talents.
Post by
299926
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dunsinane
As a result, most of the actual damage Reckoning does will not receive any multiplier at all and it falls well behind abilities such as Crusade and Touched by the Light.
I don't know if we want to compare it to Crusade or Touched by the light though.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0xA0uGusIufdts0x0h
That's a cookie cutter prot, but taking 3 points in Reckoning.
Those 3 points have to go into either Reckoning, Divinity, Stoicism, Imp HoJ, or Divine Sacrifice to get to Tier 6 talents. So shouldn't it be compared against just those other talents, and no others?
Do people read my posts before responding?
This does not mean "never take Reckoning". If you are leveling as Prot, Reckoning is an excellent talent for AoE grinding because of the extra seal procs that will keep you alive. If you are going for a maximum threat build at 80, the three optional points at the top of the Prot tree that need to be assigned to move past Blessing of Sanctuary have to go somewhere - and Reckoning is the only threat talent on the menu.
And no, a comparison to Crusade, TbtL, Conviction, and SotP is quite valid - because you can certainly discard points in those talents to pick up Reckoning. It would be a bad choice.
Conversely, comparing a threat talent to a utilty or mitigation talent would be invalid without context. They do different things, so apple and oranges.
This isn't to say it's a good talent to take as prot, I just don't feel Touched or Crusade is a fair comparison, since every Prot build will already have Touched, and you can't get crusade without sacrificing other deep prot talents.
It's not uncommon at all to see builds around here that skip TbtL.
As for Crusade - as only 1/2 SA is needed with proper mana management, you can get 3/3 Crusade easily enough without sacrificing deep Prot.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxf0x0c
Post by
MischievousLoki
I usually put one point in it to move down the tree. I imagine that point will be worth a lot more next patch.
Post by
Quest
Reckoning is a survival talent, ironically, but thats just becuse of where it is placed in prot. If it were placed in ret it would be awesome.
Post by
GenXCub
As for Crusade - as only 1/2 SA is needed with proper mana management, you can get 3/3 Crusade easily enough without sacrificing deep Prot.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxf0x0c
I think I see the miscommunication here.
I see the 18 points in ret as required for a prot build, whereas the 3 points in reckoning are the wiggle-room points.
You chose to take Crusade at the expense of Sanctity of Battle (not reckoning), and you took DS + DG at the expense of Reckoning (or the other lower tier alternatives) because those points have to be spent in Tier 1-5.
I prefer SoB, but Crusade will win in 3.2 for me when Exo goes away from being instant cast.
Post by
Quest
Exo will still be instant cast if you use it correctly.
Edit:
BAH!
Post by
pezz
Not for Protection paladins it won't. AoW is more than halfway down the Ret tree.
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