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Just a Random thing
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Post by
353687
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Post by
255458
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Post by
353687
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Post by
255458
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Post by
Porcell
You can't use overpower in defensive stance, so the Imp Overpower and Taste for Blood talents are useless. You can't use Execute in defensive stance, so Sudden Death is useless.
Something most like this
build
would be a bit better.
It's still not main tanking material though.
Post by
353687
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Post by
Badent
I reckon Enhancement Shamans have a better ability to tank than that Arms setup you suggested and we all know what people think of Shamans who aspire to tank.
I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, I just don't think it'll work. I have seen many Enhancement Shamans create a successful spec and gear combo to tank certain instances and if you put you mind to it'll work.
But, if you are interested in creating a possible alterative spec for a tanking Warrior may I suggest you go down the route of a Fury / Prot Hybrid. As this has been successful in the past. There have been variations of half - half Fury / Prot or going Deep Prot with a little bit of Fury.
I just drafted
this spec
. All I have really done is edit the typical tanking build that puts points into Arms for Impale and put them in the Fury tree instead to make use of talents such as Imp Cleave, Demoralizing Shout and Enrage which I can see uses for.
If you want to go deeper into Fury, I would only suggest going as far as Bloodthrist as any talents further down the tree are only useable in Berserker Stance. This links back to the issue with using talents from the Arms tree (which you originally suggested) for tanking as they enhance abilities like Overpower which is not useable in Defensive Stance, along with Mortal Strike not being effective with a 1h Weapon.
Why is Mortal Strike not effective for tanking? You might say. Why would you suggest Bloodthirst and not Mortal Strike?
The damage done by Mortal Strike is
primarily based on Weapon Damage
whereas Bloodthirst is
primarily based on Attack Power
. So when using a 1h and Shield, if you are going for a hybrid build, Bloodthirst is the better option.
I hope this helps and I hope I won't get abused by the rest of WoWhead for going into so much detail about Hybrid tanking!
Post by
Porcell
I reckon Enhancement Shamans have a better ability to tank than that Arms setup you suggested and we all know what people think of Shamans who aspire to tank.
First, shamans don't have tanking gear available to them. Second, shamans don't have a threat modifier available to them. That Arms spec will be a thousand times better at tanking than any shaman build.
I just drafted
this spec
. All I have really done is edit the typical tanking build that puts points into Arms for Impale and put them in the Fury tree instead to make use of talents such as Imp Cleave, Demoralizing Shout and Enrage which I can see uses for.
Fury's Enrage talent does not stack with Prot's Improved Defensive Stance talent. So... no.
Post by
Badent
First, shamans don't have tanking gear available to them. Second, shamans don't have a threat modifier available to them. That Arms spec will be a thousand times better at tanking than any shaman build.
Clearly you did not get my point. I am well aware Shamans are not ment to tank but thanks for telling me sir. What I said - "We all know what people think of Shamans who aspire to tank" = Cannot do effectively. I said that these Shamans in question would have a
better chance
at having a go at tanking then an Arms Warrior would. Do I think they should tank? No. I was just comparing for arguments sake to the OP's original idea of deep Arms tanking.
Edit: There have been clever Shamans in the past who have successfuly tanked certain raids / instances with the right setup. No matter what people say, I admire them for doing what makes then enjoy the game and surpass the 'physics' of the game.
Fury's Enrage talent does not stack with Prot's Improved Defensive Stance talent. So... no.
Oh no what a crisis! I guess now once one has gained such knowledge one would just have to tweak the build slightly one way or another. Rather than just try have a go at me via minor details, you could consider the main point of the idea. Its still possible to go into the Fury tree at least as deep as Imp. Cleave rather than Impale. Do I think this is a better option? Not really. I'm just saying its an option open to people. Either way, it would be interesting to compare the effectiveness of AoE tanking by Warriors with Imp. Cleave. Maybe
this
would meet your requirements to a certain extent?
Post by
357024
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Post by
marklartank
you can tank as arms, but it's with the fairly common
UA build
. the thing you're getting out of arms is 1 second revenges.
it's a fun build, but pretty situational and really fails on trash and aoe tanking. for the fights that it's good at, it's unmatched in threat and dps.
Post by
Porcell
Clearly you did not get my point. I am well aware Shamans are not ment to tank but thanks for telling me sir. What I said - "We all know what people think of Shamans who aspire to tank" = Cannot do effectively. I said that these Shamans in question would have a
better chance
at having a go at tanking then an Arms Warrior would. Do I think they should tank?
I still don't understand your assessment that Shamans have a better chance at having a go at tanking than an Arms Warrior. Down to the very base, a tank needs to do 2 things. Hold Threat, Reduce Damage. Shamans do not have the gear available to them with Defense, Parry, Dodge, Block. Secondly Shamans do not have the 207% threat modifier. Arms warriors have both of these things. So Shamans can do neither of the things required of a tank, and an Arms warrior can do both of them. Maybe back when there was Druid tanking gear, shamans might have had a chance with the damage reduction portion...
Oh no what a crisis! I guess now once one has gained such knowledge one would just have to tweak the build slightly one way or another. Rather than just try have a go at me via minor details, you could consider the main point of the idea.
The main point of the idea being that you can make a semi-viable tanking build with the Fury tree? Unchallenged. I wouldn't say Improved Cleave would be worth going that deep into Fury though; you aren't going to use Cleave enough for it to outweigh Deepwounds/Impale.
There's really only like 4 real "tanking" builds for warriors. Most of them have a couple free points that could move around, but there's a general theme to them. There's the Deep Wounds build that had 2 points free to go into either cruelty or something in Prot. There's Survivability where you get Imp Demo, Imp Disciplines, but no Deep Wounds. This build is likely to either have Imp HS and 2/5 Cruelty, or 5/5 Commanding Shout. Then you have the Bloodthirst Fury/Prot Hybrid build. This one is good for soloing lower instances. The last would be the UA Arms/Prot Hybrid, which is kind of a gimmicky spam-revenge build.
Any other build that you could possibly come up with will either be 1) very narrow in its application, and/or 2) inferior to one of the above 4 builds, either in regards to threat, survivability, or both.
Post by
336280
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Post by
Escutcheon
Actually hybrid Arms/Prot tanking is workable. It's great for single target tanking but lacks somewhat in AoE tanking, which has historically been the biggest problem for Warrior tanks.
Panzer
Gives you the advantage of +40% damage with Revenge, a one second cooldown for Revenge, as well as Impale + Deep wounds, a weapon spec. and Mortal Strike. (Plus improved threat with Tac. Mastery!) I think I've seen a grand total of one Warrior ever using this spec, but he did the job well.
Post by
Badent
I apologise that Porcell and myself have gone extremely off topic here but I have to respond.
I still don't understand your assessment that Shamans have a better chance at having a go at tanking than an Arms Warrior. Down to the very base, a tank needs to do 2 things. Hold Threat, Reduce Damage. Shamans do not have the gear available to them with Defense, Parry, Dodge, Block. Secondly Shamans do not have the 207% threat modifier. Arms warriors have both of these things. So Shamans can do neither of the things required of a tank, and an Arms warrior can do both of them. Maybe back when there was Druid tanking gear, shamans might have had a chance with the damage reduction portion...
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/
Bizzard list Shamans as being a tanking class in that description on par with their healing and damage dealing. -
"Looking for a secondary tank?"
All jokes aside if you consider that to be a joke. Have a quick search on Warcraft Movies / Youtube for Shaman tanks and you will find them. Just as you will find Rogues who have tanked Illidan. Do Rogues have a tanking spec? No. But its possible. Just as it is with Shamans.
In order for Shamans to tank effectively they would need to stack Stamina, Armour and Avoidance rather than Defense, Block etc. Obviously Avoidance is less effective than brute Migation but it works. Perhaps this was more likely for Shamans to do in BC rather than now in Wotlk, but people still do it. In additon, they would need to stack Spell Crit and Damage (for Shocks, totems etc).
There is also the concern for mana endurance (when comparing to Prot Paladins). The Shaman would have Water Shield and Mana Spring Totem.
In regards to threat,
Frost Shock
causes high threat in a similar way to
Searing Pain
. This would be the main ability to be used during combat. When the Shaman gets full stacks of
Maelstorm Weapon
, they will be throwing instant Lightning Bolts with increased damage from Stormstrike debuff and
Frozen Power
.
In terms of defensive strategy. You have
Shamanistic Rage
on a quite short cooldown (which also helps with mana regeneration). Stoneskin Totem for damage reduction, Strength of Earth for increased
attack power
, even more
armour
,
dodge
and
shield block
. All that from 1 totem. Not to mention
Glyph of Stoneclaw Totem
.
For further information, take a look at
http://www.wowwiki.com/Shamans_as_tanks
and
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1272361117&sid=1&pageNo=1
.
The main point of the idea being that you can make a semi-viable tanking build with the Fury tree? Unchallenged. I wouldn't say Improved Cleave would be worth going that deep into Fury though; you aren't going to use Cleave enough for it to outweigh Deepwounds/Impale.
There's really only like 4 real "tanking" builds for warriors. Most of them have a couple free points that could move around, but there's a general theme to them. There's the Deep Wounds build that had 2 points free to go into either cruelty or something in Prot. There's Survivability where you get Imp Demo, Imp Disciplines, but no Deep Wounds. This build is likely to either have Imp HS and 2/5 Cruelty, or 5/5 Commanding Shout. Then you have the Bloodthirst Fury/Prot Hybrid build. This one is good for soloing lower instances. The last would be the UA Arms/Prot Hybrid, which is kind of a gimmicky spam-revenge build.
Any other build that you could possibly come up with will either be 1) very narrow in its application, and/or 2) inferior to one of the above 4 builds, either in regards to threat, survivability, or both.
I agree with you there, I was only suggesting that Fury build as an alternative. I understand it will not be as effective in the long term but its just and idea. I'm sure there are situational uses for it.
Edit: That is probably my longest post in history.
Post by
201884
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