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Thrall vs Garrosh
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Post by
451455
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Post by
taurenmoo812
Tirion- Had Ettrigg, and Varian let the death knights in to.
More of a gaming mechanic then anything to do with lore, if you remember Thassarian, and the quest chain for him, it turns out Varian pretty much used him as something expendable. The so called noble king of the alliance doesn't so much as accept death knights, as rather sees them as another tool.
Alextraza- She has ties to the Alliance, and has seen brox as a example orcs have changed.
She had ties to the night elves thousends of years before the alliance were formed. She's never been part of any side because she's the aspect of life, and 'loves all life', so much so she was able to forgive the orcs that imprisoned her.
Cenarion Circle- Trusts taruen, a orc getting the title "DEFENDER of Cenarius" is just plain stupied
Game mechanic, nothing more. But the cenarion circle was another faction who realised, through the tauren more then anything, that the orcs were under the sway of demonic corruption. After all it was Cenarius that gave Brox his legendary axe thousends of years before.
And as for Tirion's speech, he REALLY needs to see The Apothecary in Undercity
You think seeing that would suddenly change Tirions point of view on the horde and make him an alliance only supporter again? In case you hadn't noticed there are forsaken as part of the argent crusade. Whats happening in undercity is part of the horde and alliance rivalry (even though most of the captured in there are scarlett crusade) and would no longer concern Tirion, his morals are set above such things.
Post by
451455
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Post by
Rankkor
I still don't see what's the big deal wiht the forsaken experiments, I mean for all we know those humans could be syndicate members. they could be scarlet crusaders, they could be of the house of ravenholdt (is that how it's spelled?) or whatever.
why do everyone imidietly assumes they are citizens of lordaeron? moreover why does everyone assumes they are "inocents"?
the forsaken blight was a weapon, not to be used to conquer the world but to protect themselves from agression.
why a weapon? no other race needs such a horrible invention.
well keep this in mind.
all races can reproduce. if there is a suden atack on stormwind or ogrimar, and several orcs or humans die, 10 years from now there will have been many children born to repopulate the losses.
forsaken however do not reproduce, after all they are dead, how can a dead person give birth to life?
and as skeeran said, the blight does not reanimate those that infects.
what's more, they can't rely on necromancy to bolster their ranks for the simple reason that when a necromancer reanimates a body, it its tied to the will of the necromancer, they wound't be truly forsaken, only mindless undead, and the forsaken hate mindless undead (their starting quests show that much)
Undead=reanimated corpse without free will, they simply follow basic instructions of their masters.
Forsaken= reanimated dead who has regained their freewill and think on their own therefore they leave their master and stand by themselves (hence the name forsaken). (in this way, thecnically every single death knight regardless of race, is a forsaken :P)
therefore, it is double important to forsaken to protect every member of their society, they know they face extintion, it's only a matter of time, so they invented the blight to buy themselves more time, I mean what army would posibly dare to atack them if they had a deadly gas?.
it's a tough luck that putress sent all their efforst to the drain when he did his betrayal.
Post by
Adamsm
THIS is why Tirion is banded as a "traitor"No, he was branded a traitor because he wouldn't willingly go along with letting the Silver Hand kill an Orc who saved his life and proved to him that they weren't all insane killing machines. Read "Blood and Honour" for the full story. And Tirion is since been redeemed a thousand times over, after all, he is the Ashbringer.
And you brought up the stuff with the Queen of Life.
Post by
Rankkor
THIS is why Tirion is banded as a "traitor"No, he was branded a traitor because he wouldn't willingly go along with letting the Silver Hand kill an Orc who saved his life and proved to him that they weren't all insane killing machines. Read "Blood and Honour" for the full story. And Tirion is since been redeemed a thousand times over, after all, he is the Ashbringer.
And you brought up the stuff with the Queen of Life.
OMG, u pwned him in so many lvls is hard to keep track dude :P
Post by
451455
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Post by
451455
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Rankkor
If Sylvanas needs all humans dead to reporduce, then its safe to say Varian made the right choice
what the hell?
I just said that undead can't reproduce, they are dead, what part of
they can't rely on necromancy to bolster their ranks for the simple reason that when a necromancer reanimates a body, it its tied to the will of the necromancer, they wound't be truly forsaken, only mindless undead, and the forsaken hate mindless undead (their starting quests show that much) didn't u understand?
U're not very bright are u ? :P
let me spell it out for you in a slow steady easy way.
sylvannas doesn't need all humans dead to reproduce, they simply
cannot reproduce and that's it, period.
True, but the only good human is a dead human for Sylvanas
again, either quote, point a lore source, or STFU.
sylvannas does not wants to exterminate all the humans, they want to be left alone, if the humans aproach their "turf" u can bet they will atack, but they just woud not lauch an offensive on humans while unprovoked, why not? because that would be treason to the horde, and they know better than to betray thrall.
And they are innocents, because they are easier to capture, as the Forsaken attmitted
once more, lack of true logic, they are inocents because they are easy to capture? o_O if that's your definition to inocent then I guess these forsaken are inocents:
Deathguard Schneider
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=27376
Senior Scrivener Barriga
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=27378
Engineer Burke
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=27379
Chancellor Amai
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=27381
all of them fall into your definiton of inocent, just because they were easy to capture? O.O
dude, being easy to capture doesn't make u inocent, it makes u stupid.
and last but not least, u can't really rub puttres on our face, the humans have their own share of betrayers, including but not limiting the entire prestor family who happen to be....... black dragons yhea :P I wonder why the dragons never atempted to infiltrate the horde....... a rite, cuz we're not that stupid.
Im glad Putress betrayed, now we can wait and laugh once Sylvanas gets her head sliced off by Varian
don't count your blessings, silvannas would put 20 arrows in varian's butt before he makes a move, we're talking about an elf that's over 500 years old and has PLENTY of battle experience, has perfected battle to the point of makin it almost an art, and has been ranger-general for over 3 century's, far more than varian who was a petty noble turned to gladiator barely 5 years before WOTLK.
on the battle for the undercity what does varian does? swing a sword here, swing a sword there, spin arround 360º degrees, leap and stab, rince and repeat.
how did sylvannas fights? shoots 50 arrows at the same time, summons the banshees to possess the enemy, jumps on the back of a doomguard and uses him as an improvised flight mount to shoot the other flying doomguards, and does dual-ambush-style sneak hits with her enchanted double daggers.
heck, checkout wowwiki's quote about her Sylvanas is the best archer on Azeroth — she claimed she could hit a flying bird in the eye. and she proved her claims of acuracy on the undercity, with the whole doomguard slaughter thingie, on real life that's like try to jump on the back of a wild horse, and shoot other horses with a bow while in motion, while your horse is still moving, and u're struggling to not fall off and still manage to killt hem all in 1 hit (AKA headshot). if u can do that, then u're better than she is.
everyone knows she's the best archer on the world, bar none, is varian the best warrior on the world? nope, saurfang is, and if u dare to say otherwise then be prepare for the flamestorm of the century by every fan of saurfang on wowhead (wich happens to be 80% of the users)
varian doesn't stand a chance.
the only reason arthas was able to best her in combat was because he was empowered by the lich king, he was armed with a legendary sword called frostmourne, and had an endless limiltless legion of undead soldiers to siege silvermoon.
soldiers that didn't had the necesitiys of common armys like food, sleep, rest, fear, or undicipline.
There are few Undercity quests where the undead dont say they love the Dark lady
those are dead now, I'm glad (to a small degree) that putress made his coup, it served to "purge" the undercity of the traitors, I seem to recall something along those lines happens in stormwind with the now defunct quest-chain of the "drakefire amulet" and with the defias brotherhood quest-chain, and even then, stormwind is still plaged with traitors ;) before u look at the straw on the eye of your brother, take out the log on your own damn eye.
Post by
451455
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
You said they need the plague to use on humans so the forsaken can grow in numbers. And they have plagues to rise dead humans and scourge as thier own
can u quote when I said that? I said they needed the blight to PROTECT their numbers ,not to increase them.
already skeerand and myself have repeatedly said taht the blight DOES NOT reainmate, it only kills, the plp at the wrathgate didn't rose as undead, they all died when they inhaled the blight.
By "inncoents", i meant a light-casting scarlet crusader can fight back, but inncoent little girls can not, who know how many of thease sylvanas killed O.o
as I said before, u don't know where those humans come from, nobody does, just as they "Could" be inocent, they may as well be murderers criminals, and worst scum, most likely all the humans used by the forsaken in their experiments are 99% scarlet crusaders, u're not gonna defend them now are u?
And i cant link or copy and past because i suck at computers, i get most of my sources frm Wowwiki
that's a sad excuse, if u can quote me, then u can copy&paste the source of your info and quote it here, stop avoidign our lack of proper material to defend your claims, it's getting sad and sad by the minute.
they have plagues to rise dead humans and scourge as thier own
for the 5000000 time, quote, point a lore source or STFU.
And lord knows how many betrayers the horde had (Gul'Dan, Blackhand, Ner'zhul, Rend Blackhand, Kargath Bladefist, Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Borx, Putress, Varimathras, Maim Blackhand.... to name a few :P).
again, u confuse OLD HORDE with NEW HORDE pal.
big diference there.
the only one on that cute list of yours that has been a traitor in the new horde are putress and varimathras, while the traitors in the alliance are much much much larger.
and as for the black dragons infiltrating the horde, again OLD HORDE, not NEW HORDE.
big diference, really HUGE.
and BTW, on that list of yours there is one "borx" for your sake that better be a typo, or someone else, cuz brox is not a traitor.
if "borx" is another orc, then allrite, my mistake.
no one can shot 50 arrows at the same time, its insane. You made up the dagger and doomguard part
HAHAHAHA dude, play the battle for the undercity (horde version) and see for yourself, she does shoot a huge stream of arrows, so many u can't count them, and she does do the dagger+doomguard trik when they reach the section 2 of the battle, just before they fight the boss named "the impasable".
before u make a fool out of yourself pls do your frikking research, because unlike you I NEVER make anything up, what I say is what I've read and saw and researched myself.
and I do mention where i get my sources.
"Best archer in all of azeroth" thats junk, her younger sister could beat her]
for the 5000001 time quote, point lore source of STFU.
it seems u think the people who wrote her article are wrong, and u know more than them, well news flash dude, u don't, she IS the best archer on azeroth, bar none.
Sylvanas was a place holder Ranger general
sure, sure, u're rite, that's why the elves put her in charge of the main defense of silvermoon, dude she is the leader of all the rangers, the main farstrider ever to live, her skill with a bow is the best.
vereesa is regarded by everyone as the "lesser" windrunner, because both sylvannas and alleria surpass her on skill and wisdom. vereesa is so naive she doesn't even know her sister is the head of the forsaken. (but again I can't hate vereesa, I'm a fan of her since I read day of the dragon and even more after night of the dragon)
I'm not gonna argue with you about varian's skills as a warrior, he was the best gladiator in the crimsom ring for a damn good reason, I never said that he was a weak warrior, i said that he's quite far form being the best warrior of the world, whereas sylvannas skills as a archer are surpassed by NONE.
Saurfang is a Saurfang,
not a warrior
O_O BLASPHEMOUS!
Post by
Patty
Saurfang is a Saurfang, not a warrior...
O
rly?
Well Rankkor, I always thought little of you, but im sure your mentaly insaneThat's helpful how? Insulting people is against the forum rules tbh.
The difference is though, Varian was not born a warrior. He was born a prince. He never fought hugely until all the crap which was turned into his Lore. Which is pretty much, a watered-down version of Thrall's story with a few name changes in my opinion.
The defias brother hood is all but dstroyed, we are almost traitor free. Are YOU!The House of Nobles want a word with you. Horde and Alliance both have corrupt people within them, there's no point arguing against that.
But, just another Alliance fanboy with tunnel vision I guess...
But I agree. Ctrl+C, then Ctrl + V isn't difficult. Link sources if you want to back something up.
Post by
Rankkor
Saurfang is a Saurfang, not a warrior...
O
rly?
Well Rankkor, I always thought little of you, but im sure your mentaly insaneThat's helpful how? Insulting people is against the forum rules tbh.
The difference is though, Varian was not born a warrior. He was born a prince. He never fought hugely until all the crap which was turned into his Lore. Which is pretty much, a watered-down version of Thrall's story with a few name changes in my opinion.
The defias brother hood is all but dstroyed, we are almost traitor free. Are YOU!The House of Nobles want a word with you. Horde and Alliance both have corrupt people within them, there's no point arguing against that.
But, just another Alliance fanboy with tunnel vision I guess...
But I agree. Ctrl+C, then Ctrl + V isn't difficult. Link sources if you want to back something up.
thanks patty =)
and u made quite a point there on varian (damn my amateur english :S I can't compose like that T.T)
he was born a PRINCE, a NOBLE, with no experience in combat whatsoever, he's only became medieval rambo 5 years before WOTLK:
it doens't matter if on those 5 years he's done so many amazing stuff, point remains his battle experience and training is of 5 years while sylvannas has over 3 centurys of combat training and battle perfection.
and BTW patty, I've already warned him about the insults, just let him continue, the more he insults the sooner he gets his ban and we all end up happy
Post by
Adamsm
The dragon flight did infiltrate the horde, read Byond the Dark Portal. Those who betrayed the Alliance pay the ultimate price. And lord knows how many betrayers the horde had (Gul'Dan, Blackhand, Ner'zhul, Rend Blackhand, Kargath Bladefist, Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Borx, Putress, Varimathras, Maim Blackhand.... to name a few :P).
Varian would kill Sylvanas in no time at all,Varian has been a warrior his whole life, Varian has taken on dozens of Defias, naga, Dragonspawn, Orcs, Ogres... He has ripped master bladmasters in half, made a team of world champion Ogres look like nothing, tore a warlocks head off while losing control of his body, has been trained by the greatest warrior ever to live, caught the ledgenary assassin Garona's dagger in mid-air and called it "handing him to weapon", the only reason she is alive (for now :P) is because Varian decied to excute her later, and best of all, he one-hitted the great Dragon-spawned mother known as Onyxia.
Sylvanas was a place holder Ranger general for when she wanted to vist it the humans, and go in the dark portal, no one can shot 50 arrows at the same time, its insane. You made up the dagger and doomguard part.
"Best archer in all of azeroth" thats junk, her younger sister could beat her. Give me proof to the horse part. Saurfang is a Saurfang, not a warrior, sadley warrior have the biggest role in lore, so "Best" is hard to say, but Varian comes close to it.
Darkton, enough with the freaking Varian crap on this thread, go put it on your own, stop. This is Thrall vs Garrosh, not "Darkton's mad Man-Love for Varian" thread. As for the rest, I doubt Varian could kill Sylvanas, mainly because he would have to take her head off with the first move or else she would kill him (you know the whole undead thing). Also.... You put Borx(guessing you meant Brox) for a betrayer horde.... havent you been trying to use him as a justifications for the Queen of Life liking the Orcs.
And for the last f-ing time, BROX never knew the Queen of Life, he was with the Night Elf forces through all of War of the Ancients, never ever, did the two meet. Go look up your lore, stop pulling facts out of your arse and let this thread go back to what it is suppose to be. You keep pulling up Varian, not us, so stop it.
Edit: Just saw Rank and Patty's post.... Actually he's been training in the art of War since he was like 10, he trained with the Bronzebeards same as another young Prince, he was trained by Lothar and the Lordaeron Weapon's Masters. So, yes his Mary-sueness is new, but he has been a warrior for the last few dozen years.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Darkton, enough with the freaking Varian crap on this thread, go put it on your own, stop. This is Thrall vs Garrosh, not "Darkton's mad Man-Love for Varian" thread
thank you bro' seriously, this dude is driving me (and I'm guessing many other users here) crazy with his random ranting, he brught up tirion, and when we proved him wrong dissmissed him, brought up alextrazsa and again when proven wrong disimisses it.
honest to god, this is the worst debater in history (and I've had my share of bad debaters in college) when he can't prove his point he quickly jumps to a new one and covers up the previous one wiht personal atacks to his debater.
havent you been trying to use him as a justifications for the Queen of Life liking the Orcs.
he's done that with tirion, brox, alextrazsa, jaina, and more all to try (quite in vain) to justify varian, on a thrall vs garrosh thread.
Go look up your lore, stop pulling facts out of your arse
I've tried to tell him that but nope he continues to pull random facts and his sad excuse to not quoting lore is because aparently ctrl+c & ctrl+v is too hard for him (yet he has no hesitation to call stupid several other users, that's very ironic, and somehow entertaining)
Edit: Just saw Rank and Patty's post.... Actually he's been training in the art of War since he was like 10, he trained with the Bronzebeards same as another young Prince, he was trained by Lothar and the Lordaeron Weapon's Masters. So, yes his Mary-sueness is new, but he has been a warrior for the last few dozen years
o_O really? ok, then I take it back what I said about his combat experience, but I still maintain that he could never ever kill sylvannas, heck he could hardly kill garrosh (and that's cause garrosh is a total idiot, there's no denying it)
Rankkor does not listen to anything i say anyway
because what u say is unproven facts, but when confronted by actual proven quoted facts I do listen and can admit if I'm wrong or not, for example addams didn't just said "variand did had training" he said a source, wich I looked it up, and it turns out true u're the one who refuses to take all the facts provided by me and the rest of the users, u just dismiss us as idiots and move on with the random ranting.
i'ts gonna be lovely watch u get banned if u don't stop the insults (and I dare u to quote a single post of mine or of anyone else here insulting you, it's u the one who's atackign the others)
Post by
451455
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