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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Defense in Cataclysm
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Post by
373350
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
soterios
It would really help druid tanks to be able to use rogue/kitty gear for tanking, but the bear's spec will make it stand out from a kitty going bear.
As for being OP in pvp... I'm sure it'll balance out to be about the same as it is now.
Post by
83344
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Post by
hashmel
Defense: The Defense statistic is also being removed from items so that players no longer have to worry about juggling around "the cap." Tanks will receive the necessary anti-crit from talents, like Survival of the Fittest.
So... would that mean pretty much anyone could tank, even in DPS gear? The only thing tank gear would give is a few mitigation stats (dodge, parry, etc.) and since all the stamina is pretty much equalized (according to Blizzcon), there would probably be no point in tank gear.
no they're giving prot warriors/pallies, and tank specced DKs a survival of the fittest type crit reduction, a priest won't be walking around tanking things. tanking gear will still be used as it gives superior stamina and avoidance (guessing with stats like AP and def rating being gone from on equip stats there'll be more item points for things like dodge/parry/block) but defense rating will no longer be an "on equip" stat for future gear and they may even remove it from present gear come cat.
Post by
373350
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Post by
Squishalot
The only thing tank gear would give is a few mitigation stats (dodge, parry, etc.)
A few mitigation stats?
Tank spec is more than just uncrittable-ness. It's not just a matter of hitting 540 Defense and being able to tank Ulduar, you know! It takes a lot to get that 50+% avoidance!
As it is, PvE geared tanks are invincible against melee in PvP. They suffer against casters, and they still will in the new expansion as well, unless there are new bosses requiring spell tanks. Try killing a Prot Paladin in a duel or in a BG.
Post by
338102
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Post by
pezz
I'm not sure what your point is. This change was never designed to stop theorycrafting and min/maxing, and it still won't be difficult to tell who a viable tank is and who isn't.
Oh, and awesome. I got 'qq' as the beginning of my verification code.
Edit: How did two people beat me in the time it takes to write two lines?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
But it's nice to know that if you have 540~ defense (only obtained from tank-specific gear), you can at least tank stuff.
That's not true. I've tanked most heroics while way under 535 def and done fine. If you measure a tanks capability in def, you're not doing it right.
Post by
pezz
But it's nice to know that if you have 540~ defense (only obtained from tank-specific gear), you can at least tank stuff.
That's not true. I've tanked most heroics while way under 535 def and done fine. If you measure a tanks capability in def, you're not doing it right.
Indeed. I once downed the first boss in HC HoL in half pre-raid tank/half healer gear because my gear changing addon didn't recognize my newly gemmed and enchanted gear. I don't think I even had 500 defense.
It was hard, but we did it. Then we wiped on trash. Then I noticed my gear.
Post by
373350
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
But it's nice to know that if you have 540~ defense (only obtained from tank-specific gear), you can at least tank stuff. Now you're going to have to do more calculations with dodge/parry % and spec into it to tank, which kind of ruins the point of "Removing all the mathy calculations and make it more available".
speccing into it is what makes you a tank, equipping the proper tank specific gear makes you a tank with common sense, after that it's how well you are as a tank.
all they're doing is replacing the 540 def cap with a sotf talent for tanks, they'll still use dodge/block/parry for avoidance but plate tanks will no longer have to juggle gear trying to reach 540 and still use their awesome trinket without a piece of crap blue def trinket just so they're def capped. it's basically a matter of convenience toward plate tanks and a relief to everyone in their party knowing so long as they're tank specced then they're crit immune under normal circumstances.
Post by
373350
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
338102
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
But it's nice to know that if you have 540~ defense (only obtained from tank-specific gear), you can at least tank stuff.
That's not true. I've tanked most heroics while way under 535 def and done fine. If you measure a tanks capability in def, you're not doing it right.
Heroics =/= Raids. Heroics you can tank naked with a fishing pole, Raids you
need
540 defense or higher, or you'll get 1 shotted by the boss. I'm not measuring the tank's capabilities in defense, I'm saying that if you DO NOT have defense (in raids), then you'll die.
Oh and I'm sorry, if you're trying to tank without tanking stats, then
you're doing it wrong
.
A) you didn't say raid
b) I've tanked most of 10 man naxx with 530ish def
c) you can't use def as a mesument of a tanks ability for raid content either. A 10-man naxx tank and a 25-man hard-more ToC raider might both have def in the 540's; it's the other stats that make the tank able to tank higher level content. Removing def did in fact make it less "mathier" because now we only have to worry about 1 or 2 sources of dodge, parry, and block instead of a second or third.
d) "But it's nice to know that if you have 540~ defense (only obtained from tank-specific gear), you can at least tank stuff." So how is the new system any different? "It's nice to know if you have the crit immunity talents, you can at least tank stuff."
Post by
killerpet
But it's nice to know that if you have 540~ defense (only obtained from tank-specific gear), you can at least tank stuff. Now you're going to have to do more calculations with dodge/parry % and spec into it to tank, which kind of ruins the point of "Removing all the mathy calculations and make it more available".
speccing into it is what makes you a tank, equipping the proper tank specific gear makes you a tank with common sense, after that it's how well you are as a tank.
I'm also thinking about it in PVP though, not just PVE. If you can get your anti-crit talents in your tree, then you can just stack up a bunch of resilience and be pretty much un-killable (Druid tree form, with plate).
You seem to be mistaken,
Survival of the Fittest
(or 540 def) will not make you crit immune to players. Only reduce the chance that you will be crit by them by 6%. Bosses have a 6% chance to crit you with a melee attack (their spells cannot crit)
Post by
hashmel
5.60% chance for bosses to crit a level 80 but that's beside the point, point being all tank specced classes will get a passive 6% crit reduction which conveniently allows plate tanks to equip superior trinkets without juggling defense rating and under normal circumstances no tank specced player need worry about being crit due to gear inadequacies or just terrible luck with the loot RNG game
absolutely correct about the pvp application, it will not make you crit immune in pvp as there's no reasonable way beyond abilities like
Blessed Resilience
, it simply reduces the chance you'll receive a critical hit in pvp by 6%
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