This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Questions for a Catholic
Return to board index
Post by
ASHelmy
I just want undeniable proof that there is something after death. I am not an atheist btw, I am just finding it a little harder to believe all the things I used to. And I have to say, I envy your conviction.
I like this post, a lot.
Why? I shudder to think what a universe without god would mean. I, frankly, (no offence intended, btw) do not understand how atheists bear it.
Post by
Arathian
You might find this funny,but i wish every day i believed.Knowing that you are alone and when you die nothing happens is very heavy to lift.
edit:just saw this:Christianity is broken up into Catholicism, Protestantism, and Anglicanism.
Protestantism is the only one to use denominations (Baptist, Lutheran, etc).
So all Protestants are Christians and all Catholics are Christians, but no Protestant is a Catholic and vice versa.
ever heard of Orthodoxism?It's also a big part of christianity.Bigger than aglicanism.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
edit:just saw this:Christianity is broken up into Catholicism, Protestantism, and Anglicanism.
Protestantism is the only one to use denominations (Baptist, Lutheran, etc).
So all Protestants are Christians and all Catholics are Christians, but no Protestant is a Catholic and vice versa.
ever heard of Orthodoxism?It's also a big part of christianity.Bigger than aglicanism.
Already dealt with.
Post by
Skyfire
I like this post. A lot.Why? I shudder to think what a universe without god would mean. I, frankly, (no offence intended, btw) do not understand how atheists bear it.
You take my post in the wrong manner. Think about it. :)
Post by
Arathian
Already dealt with.
sorry.Well,no,i disagree with what you said.Idd,catholic and orthodox church were once the same church....but the same is true with protestants.The orthodox church calls itself: catholical orthodox church.It is not related with the catholic church,but instead uses the meaning of the word:global.
So catholic =/= orthodox.
Also don't assume other people are in your mind.Try clarifying a bit more.Writing: "and orthodox" would take 3 seconds and would make things clear
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Already dealt with.
sorry.Well,no,i disagree with what you said.Idd,catholic and orthodox church were once the same church....but the same is true with protestants.The orthodox church calls itself: catholical orthodox church.It is not related with the catholic church,but instead uses the meaning of the word:global.
So catholic =/= orthodox.
Also don't assume other people are in your mind.Try clarifying a bit more.Writing: "and orthodox" would take 3 seconds and would make things clear
No, it's not related to the
Roman
Catholic Church. It is however Catholic:
The official designation of the church in its liturgical and canonical texts is "the Orthodox Catholic Church"
The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but is not Protestant. It is Orthodox, but not Jewish. It is Catholic, but not Roman.
I could link some more, but I think you get the point.
This isn't some division I'm making up, and I don't think anyone is in my mind. Someone asked for a division of Christianity so I gave them the most general division there is.
Each of the Orthodoxies (Greek, Russian, etc.) along with Roman are Catholic
rites
.
Post by
Arathian
well,the way you putted it i thought you ment related to the catholic church.As i said before.It is catholic in the meaning that it is all over the world and considering itself the true gospel.So yes,under that perspective it is catholic.BUT when we say catholic we mean the papal/roman church.
Try to be clear.We are NOT inside your head
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
well,the way you putted it i thought you meant related to the catholic church.
It
is
part of the Catholic Church....It's not part of the
Roman
Catholic Church.
Post by
Arathian
okey i am confused
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
In the beginning there was the Catholic Church...that was it. As it began to spread through the world, different rites began to spring up. In fact the Eastern rites preceded the Roman rite. So to call them non-Catholic is an insult.
Most lived in harmony until the 11th century when some of the Eastern rites broke away from Rome. They're all still Catholics. They just aren't in communion with Rome.
Post by
Arathian
In the beginning there was the Catholic Church...that was it. As it began to spread through the world, different rites began to spring up. In fact the Eastern rites preceded the Roman rite. So to call them non-Catholic is an insult.
Most lived in harmony until the 11th century when some of the Eastern rites broke away from Rome. They're all still Catholics. They just aren't in communion with Rome.
Yes,i know the story,with the messenger to rome that failed hardcore etc.I just never saw it that way
Post by
240135
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
What happens to good people who simply don't believe in god? Can they go to heaven?
Depends on what you mean by "don't believe in God."
If it act of the will not to believe, then no. If it is due to unwilled ignorance, yes you still can.
Post by
Arathian
So,if you are a good person.Help the poor.Make an excellent family.Be fair and just your whole life BUT you are willingly an atheist (or even believe in a different faith eg muslim ) you shouldn't go to paradise?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
The choice to reject God (apart from ignorance) is just that--a willing rejection of God. And that's how I've already defined hell.
Post by
Arathian
hell is the complete absense of god.That's what our church defines it anyway.So in this part we agree.
What we do disagree on though,is that by being an atheist you automatically lose god.The church here says:
1)Good people,regardless of faith,go to heaven
2)bad people,regardless of faith,to hell
3)You never ever lose god except if you go to hell
I don't know what romeocatholic church says though.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
hell is the complete absense of god.That's what our church defines it anyway.So in this part we agree.
What we do disagree on though,is that by being an atheist you automatically lose god.The church here says:
1)Good people,regardless of faith,go to heaven
2)bad people,regardless of faith,to hell
3)You never ever lose god except if you go to hell
I don't know what romeocatholic church says though.
Newsflash: willingly rejecting God (with a fully informed intelligence) is a
bad act
.
And why is hell a complete absence of God? Because those in hell
REJECTED
him. It's not God leaving the person, it's the person leaving God.
Post by
Arathian
Newsflash: willingly rejecting God (with a fully informed intelligence) is a
bad act
.
according to church indeed.BUT,is it so bad that negates even a virtuous life.We all sign (do bad stuff,sorry i don't know how it is spelled),that doesn't mean we all go to hell.We see if the good we did negates any bad thing we did.
And here is the question:Is being atheist so big of a crimethat would negate a virtuous life?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Newsflash: willingly rejecting God (with a fully informed intelligence) is a
bad act
.
according to church indeed.BUT,is it so bad that negates even a virtuous life.We all sign (do bad stuff,sorry i don't know how it is spelled),that doesn't mean we all go to hell.We see if the good we did negates any bad thing we did.
And here is the question:Is being atheist so big of a crimethat would negate a virtuous life?
Virtue has nothing to do with balancing good with bad. Ultimately, the state you die in is the only thing that matters when it comes to heaven or hell.
And being an atheist is not the issue. The issue is "willingly rejecting God." I would say that the vast majority of atheist aren't willingly rejecting God because they have no idea what "God" is. It's the few who come to know God for who he is, and then reject him because they don't
want
to believe.
Maybe an example will help.
There are two kings, a bloody tyrant in one kingdom and a good, virtuous king in the other. If you serve under the tyrant king without knowing that there is a good king right across the river, no one is going to hold it against you. However if you know that the man you're serving is a tyrant and the good king is just across the river and you keep serving the tyrant, you've just willfully rejected the good king. If that decision carries over to eternity, and if God really doesn't force us to accept him, then voila you just created a hell for yourself.
Post by
Arathian
So you say that virtue has nothing to do with seeing if someone is good or bad BUT what he believes is everything?
You say that god won't accept anyone that doesn't believe in him even if he was a good man?
I don't want to believe in this god,let me burn in hell
edit:to answer you example.
What if the person that served the evil king had only good intentions and tried to do good?
What if a person that served the good king was harming other people?
Also faith/god isn't black and white.Crusaders that slaughtered families and killed in the name of the god are saints while people that cured people and did good stuff in general were burned
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.