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Abortion Scenerio
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Post by
MyTie
Point: The removal of possibility of life is not the removal of life.
You have yet to tell me why formed DNA is anything but an arbitrary distinction as to what human life is.
Sorry, I misunderstood your question. DNA is just used as a reference as to distinguish all known living life forms from one another. If it has DNA, it is a life form. To take it one step further, fetus's have their own distinctive and
human
DNA, which means that a fetus IS a human, and a fetus IS alive.
Post by
Deepthought
Point: The removal of possibility of life is not the removal of life.
You have yet to tell me why formed DNA is anything but an arbitrary distinction as to what human life is.
Sorry, I misunderstood your question. DNA is just used as a reference as to distinguish all known living life forms from one another. If it has DNA, it is a life form.
A life form is not necessarily human.
Post by
MyTie
Point: The removal of possibility of life is not the removal of life.
You have yet to tell me why formed DNA is anything but an arbitrary distinction as to what human life is.
Sorry, I misunderstood your question. DNA is just used as a reference as to distinguish all known living life forms from one another. If it has DNA, it is a life form.
A life form is not necessarily human.
I saw that coming, and edited my post. The DNA possessed by fetuses is human DNA, furthermore, distinctive human DNA. They are their own living human being, from the moment of conception until they die.
Post by
Deepthought
They are their own living human being, from the moment of conception until they die.
No they aren't. A Zygote is as close to as makes no difference the sum of it's parts, an egg and a sperm, which you have just claimed have no value as human life and the fact that they are alive doesn't mean anything.
Post by
MyTie
They are their own living human being, from the moment of conception until they die.
No they aren't. A Zygote is as close to as makes no difference the sum of it's parts, an egg and a sperm, which you have just claimed have no value as human life and the fact that they are alive doesn't mean anything.
DNA is used by scientists to identify the species of any life form. All life forms have them, and we can even use DNA to distinguish between life forms within that species. Zygotes have DNA. If you were to test it, you would find that it was human DNA. So, if DNA is only possessed by life forms, then by accepted standards, Zygotes are living humans. Even if you don't want to think of them that way, they are.
Post by
Deepthought
They are their own living human being, from the moment of conception until they die.
No they aren't. A Zygote is as close to as makes no difference the sum of it's parts, an egg and a sperm, which you have just claimed have no value as human life and the fact that they are alive doesn't mean anything.
DNA is used by scientists to identify the species of any life form. All life forms have them, and we can even use DNA to distinguish between life forms within that species. Zygotes have DNA. If you were to test it, you would find that it was human DNA. So, if DNA is only possessed by life forms, then by accepted standards, Zygotes are living humans. Even if you don't want to think of them that way, they are.
It is alive in the same way that a culture growth on a petri dish is alive. That doesn't make the culture growth a mushroom and it doesn't make a zygote a human.
Post by
TheMediator
Try to empathize with all parties involved, instead of putting your blinders on and running with your own beliefs.
We get why the guy is doing it, don't try to say we don't. The problem is that guy is in the wrong. He's either A) Committing a crime for no reason, bad or B) Committing a crime to prevent something he thinks will occur later, bad.
Or are you saying its ok to kill others because they might commit a crime later? Little Johnny says he wants to burn the school down, can I bust into his house and put a bullet in his brain?
Post by
MyTie
They are their own living human being, from the moment of conception until they die.
No they aren't. A Zygote is as close to as makes no difference the sum of it's parts, an egg and a sperm, which you have just claimed have no value as human life and the fact that they are alive doesn't mean anything.
DNA is used by scientists to identify the species of any life form. All life forms have them, and we can even use DNA to distinguish between life forms within that species. Zygotes have DNA. If you were to test it, you would find that it was human DNA. So, if DNA is only possessed by life forms, then by accepted standards, Zygotes are living humans. Even if you don't want to think of them that way, they are.
It is alive in the same way that a culture growth on a petri dish is alive. That doesn't make the culture growth a mushroom and it doesn't make a zygote a human.
Take a mushroom culture growth's DNA and a zygote's DNA. Test them. One will be human, and the other will be mushroom. A zygote
is
a human. A mushroom
is
a mushroom. In order to possess DNA, it has to be life. I cannot classify a zygote as a living human, because that subject itself is debateable, but I can say that the DNA that came from a zygote came from a living human, and I can say that it was a unique living human, distinguishable from all other humans. A mushroom in a petri dish is a mushroom in a petri dish.
Post by
MyTie
It would be nice if you answered my points not completely ignored them.
It would be nice if you said something worth responding to.
Post by
Deepthought
That post is full of contradictions, MyTie. First, you say
zygote's DNA
zygote = human
DNA = life
Ergo, Zygote DNA indicates a living human.
But then;
I cannot classify a zygote as a living human
Which directly contradicts you last statement.
But again:
DNA that came from a zygote came from a living human
Post by
MyTie
That post is full of contradictions, MyTie. First, you say
zygote's DNA
zygote = human
DNA = life
Ergo, Zygote DNA indicates a living human.
But then;
I cannot classify a zygote as a living human
Which directly contradicts you last statement.
But again:
DNA that came from a zygote came from a living human
I saw the contradiction while posting it, and figured you might point it out. Allow me to clarify and correct:
A zygote's DNA can be scientifcally and undisputeably classified as coming from a distinctive living human being, but to state that a zygote is a human being is controversial.
That statement is somewhat contradictory, but reflects the state of the abortion debate.
Post by
Deepthought
I saw the contradiction while posting it, and figured you might point it out. Allow me to clarify and correct:
A zygote's DNA can be scientifcally and undisputeably classified as coming from a distinctive living human being, but to state that a zygote is a human being is controversial.
That statement is somewhat contradictory, but reflects the state of the abortion debate.
I don't mean to seem patronizing, but this is not a scientific issue, this is a moral one.
As I have said before, a growth of cells on it's own,i.e. a zygote does not, IMO, constitute human life, just as DNA from a dead sheep being similar to that of a alive lambs does not mean both are the same.
Post by
MyTie
I saw the contradiction while posting it, and figured you might point it out. Allow me to clarify and correct:
A zygote's DNA can be scientifcally and undisputeably classified as coming from a distinctive living human being, but to state that a zygote is a human being is controversial.
That statement is somewhat contradictory, but reflects the state of the abortion debate.
I don't mean to seem patronizing, but this is not a scientific issue, this is a moral one.
As I have said before, a growth of cells on it's own,i.e. a zygote does not, IMO, constitute human life, just as DNA from a dead sheep being similar to that of a alive lambs does not mean both are the same.
It is both types of issues, scientific and moral. As for your opinion.... well... i disagree. Thanks for discussing it with me, though.
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Deepthought
It is only scientific insofar that you must show your moral position to be defensible through science. Until science can pinpoint what constitutes human life, it is first and foremost a moral debate.
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