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Does Arthas truely deserve redemption?
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Skreeran
I see. So who's Mathias Lener?That would be the embodiedment of Arthas' innocence, connected to the heart that he cut out.
Post by
Adamsm
I see. So who's Mathias Lener?
Mathis Lener = Arthas Menethil heh, anagram ftl. But yeah, like Skree said, it's what's left of his heart.
Post by
229054
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
Skreeran said that Arthas "killed" his good side and darkton said that he actually just got rid of it by throwing his heart into the dephts of the glacier. Which is right?
Both in all honesty? He watched the child die in his mind, then tore out his heart and threw it into the glacier, but somehow the boy got sealed into the artifact?
Post by
Skreeran
Skreeran said that Arthas "killed" his good side and darkton said that he actually just got rid of it by throwing his heart into the dephts of the glacier. Which is right?Well, he killed it in a manner of speaking.
He "killed" the dream child representing his weakness, presumably shortly before cutting out his heart.
And look, we're not saying that there was no good in Arthas ever. All I'm saying is that the small sliver of good left in Arthas doesn't pardon him for the atrocities he's committed.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Skreeran
Or perhaps his goodness never "died"? It must have remained in his heart and perhaps it's return was what weakened the Lich King.No, Tirion ran the heart through. It's gone.
Or the goodness never actually left the body completely and held the Lich King back from the beginning.Then why is Matthias tied to the heart?
Post by
Adamsm
It must have remained in his heart and perhaps it's return was what weakened the Lich King.Tirion broke it though heh.
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229054
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Post by
306612
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Post by
Interest
In response to the title.
Hmmmmmm
. (Jaina: All this time he kept it...*weeps*)
Post by
barthem
but cant Matthias be an old god minnion?
we all know that old gods love to create illusions so there enemies can slay each other.
remember where you meet him, inside a cave full of faceless ones, minions of the old gods.
then Matthias wants that you put the blood of faceless on yourself so the lichking "cant sie you"
putting blood of faceless ones on yourself seems me a part of old god magic
Post by
Adamsm
but cant Matthias be an old god minnion?
we all know that old gods love to create illusions so there enemies can slay each other.
remember where you meet him, inside a cave full of faceless ones, minions of the old gods.
then Matthias wants that you put the blood of faceless on yourself so the lichking "cant sie you"
putting blood of faceless ones on yourself seems me a part of old god magic
If he was a servant of an Old God, what is the point of showing you memories from Arthas's mind?
Post by
barthem
but cant Matthias be an old god minnion?
we all know that old gods love to create illusions so there enemies can slay each other.
remember where you meet him, inside a cave full of faceless ones, minions of the old gods.
then Matthias wants that you put the blood of faceless on yourself so the lichking "cant sie you"
putting blood of faceless ones on yourself seems me a part of old god magic
If he was a servant of an Old God, what is the point of showing you memories from Arthas's mind?
it seems me that he "died" in arthas mind and that yog sarron made a illusion of it.
but thatsa just a theorie, but meeting arthas humanity in a cave full of old god minions seems me suspicous
Post by
Adamsm
If he was a servant of an Old God, what is the point of showing you memories from Arthas's mind?
it seems me that he "died" in arthas mind and that yog sarron made a illusion of it.
but thatsa just a theorie, but meeting arthas humanity in a cave full of old god minions seems me suspicous
Because he threw the heart into a hole under the citadel.... and didn't realize that Faceless ones were down there.
Post by
babybeluga
Arthas deserves redemption.
In that last cinematic, the real Arthas is there asking his father if it is finally over. Even his dead father embraces him as his son, which is a far cry from the threatening tones he used when speaking to the Lich King. And the dead don't lie. That is Arthas.
Before, when we believed the entity we know as Arthas to have been completely destroyed by the Lich King entity, the idea of redemption was questionable. But Arthas has been "in there" this whole time. And if he is truly sorry for his actions, and his heart seeks atonement, who are we to deny him redemption? Is redemption reserved only for the petty criminals? Or do those who have fallen the furthest deserve the same grace of the Holy Light?
In fact, if Arthas was sorry for his actions, those of us who would refuse him redemption do so with hate in our hearts and a strong desire for revenge, which is the state Arthas was in when he fell. His life would be a mirror to our own souls, and to deny his redemption would be denying our own.
We can claim to be his judges, but in the end we must have faith that the Holy Light will give Arthas what he truly deserves... whether it agrees with our "judgment" or not. The best we can do is open our hearts to compassion, and be grateful that a source of the world's pain will be gone and that our prince can finally rest. And in the end, we will all stand alone in judgment before the Light... and will have to answer for our actions against a heart that sought atonement.
Post by
Monday
Arthas deserves redemption.
In that last cinematic, the real Arthas is there asking his father if it is finally over. Even his dead father embraces him as his son, which is a far cry from the threatening tones he used when speaking to the Lich King. And the dead don't lie. That is Arthas.
Before, when we believed the entity we know as Arthas to have been completely destroyed by the Lich King entity, the idea of redemption was questionable. But Arthas has been "in there" this whole time. And if he is truly sorry for his actions, and his heart seeks atonement, who are we to deny him redemption? Is redemption reserved only for the petty criminals? Or do those who have fallen the furthest deserve the same grace of the Holy Light?
In fact, if Arthas was sorry for his actions, those of us who would refuse him redemption do so with hate in our hearts and a strong desire for revenge, which is the state Arthas was in when he fell. His life would be a mirror to our own souls, and to deny his redemption would be denying our own.
We can claim to be his judges, but in the end we must have faith that the Holy Light will give Arthas what he truly deserves... whether it agrees with our "judgment" or not. The best we can do is open our hearts to compassion, and be grateful that a source of the world's pain will be gone and that our prince can finally rest. And in the end, we will all stand alone in judgment before the Light... and will have to answer for our actions against a heart that sought atonement.
This ^^
One of my favorite quotes
Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.
Sorry for religious quote but it summarizes my feelings on this.
Post by
Skreeran
Buh... I don't like religious quotes, but that's just me.
And yeah, I suppose you're right, Beluga, but I would like him to at least have some accountability for his actions. A drunk driver that kills someone and is
really
sorry should still be held accountable, and that's not half of what Arthas did.
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