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Why Your Religion?
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Post by
Monday
Ahoy there folks. Just thought I should drop in an apologize for earlier. I have
SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder)
, and about this time (roughly between March and April) every year I get hit with some pretty severe mood swings, as you might have noticed today. I shouldn't have acted like that, and I'm sorry.
It's fine Skree =D
In things like this people are bound to have differences that clash.
Post by
Queggy
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
It was an angel, not God.
In all the passages after that is says, "God said," etc.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
It was an angel, not God.
In all the passages after that is says, "God said," etc.
I'm a bit rusty on Exodus, I don't read the bible much.
Although my main point was referring to his quote. Maybe I should go watch Prince of Egypt again...
Funden is a Mormon- Joseph Smith took it upon himself to change the entire Bible because he found the golden plates.
Btw, what happened to those plates anyways?
He didn't change it all, but quite a few places he re-translated or added lost parts.
It was the Angel Moroni that took them back to Heaven.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
That is strange there are no Muslim users, or at least ones who will say they are.
Post by
MyTie
That is strange there are no Muslim users, or at least ones who will say they are.
Let's see, there is one: ASHelmy. Not sure where he is though. Haven't seen him in a while.
Post by
Squishalot
No Buddhists, Hindus,Um, I have.... but I also know things about Christianity...
Sorry, rephrase, noone pushing the discussion down that path.
As for the lack of Muslims in this thread, I do recall a "Ask a Muslim" thread in response to HSR's "Ask a Catholic" thread, to help answer misconceptions about the religion.
@ Queggy - still hoping you can answer my question from before - what makes God's promise any more believable than any promises that I make to you? How can you, a modern person, know that I am not one of God's angels, conveying a message to you?
Post by
418219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
The human organism always worships. First, it was the gods, then it was fame (the observation and judgment of others), next it will be self-aware systems we have built to realize truly omnipresent observation and judgment. The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms.
I disagree - worship doesn't come from a need to be observed and understood, it comes from the fear of being judged down, if anything. Retribution for doing something wrong is a significantly stronger influence than redemption for doing something good.
As an example - a teenager may dress up in something fashionable - often not to look good for their own sake, but moreso to ensure that they aren't ridiculed by their friends for being unfashionable.
So the data mining algorithms, themselves, don't equate to a God-like being. You need the moral police, the enforcers, to make it happen. Think Nineteen Eighty-Four - observing wasn't the issue, it was the fact that the moral police could come down at any instant.
Post by
135207
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Post by
418219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I disagree - worship doesn't come from a need to be observed and understood, it comes from the fear of being judged down, if anything. Retribution for doing something wrong is a significantly stronger influence than redemption for doing something good.
Which ties directly into the first statement in my post.
The entirety of your post did nothing but reinforce my point, had you read it and comprehended it fully, which is not apparent in your case.
If that's the case, then it has nothing to do with data mining algorithms. Understanding and observation has nothing to do with God-hood. Having a Nazi-like police force does.
Returning to the concept of free will for a moment.
One of the more tricky theological questions I, and many prominent philosophers, have run into has been the simultaneous beliefs in free will and the concept of the Divine Plan.
Should you believe in the Divine Plan, how do you reconcile the understanding that all you do is part and parcel of God's will, or predestination, and the concept of free will?
This is not an attempt at a logical Admiral Ackbar. It is merely an attempt at understanding what, to people like myself, appears to be a logical inconsistency.
The Christian viewpoint is to note that God knows what you will choose to do, but he will not stop you from making those choices.
Post by
135207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
The Christian viewpoint is to note that God knows what you will choose to do, but he will not stop you from making those choices.
Yet to the non-believer, it appears as if the choices have already been made, where free will is merely an illusion masking the influence of the Will of God.
Do you think you've got free will? Because in a deterministic world, everything's planned out for you too, you know.
Post by
135207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
You say that like I don't understand the point, like I haven't raised that before,
in this thread
.
My personal view of the free will argument is that it is analogous to the Sims computer game. God is the player, creating these sims (us) with unique personalities, sets us to run on our AI. But our AI is spelt out and programmed (God is also the game programmer), so there are fixed things that we would do at any point in time, in reaction to the environment. So God can know what we'll do in our future, but he'll still sit there and shake his head and sigh at us when we screw up. And occasionally drag us into line by summoning a pillar of fire into the game and scaring us into submission.
It's worth noting that as a Sims player, you occasionally perform actions and create things, without fully thinking through what will happen. It's the intent - you don't create the sim with the intention that they'll spike their best mate's drink and drown him in the pool in 20 days time. You create the Sim because you want to create the Sim, and it just so happens that he'll spike his best mate's drink and drown him in the pool later.
Post by
Asylu
Everyone is assuming that God is a moral creature. By simple observation it is clear that God is amoral. That does not mean the creator is evil or good, those words are make believe, imagined by humans as a way to define the "us vs them" mentality that allows our crazy species to continue on. Anyone who does something harmful to "us" is evil and when they do it to "them" it is good. If something has the power to create life on such a massive scale, who are we to force our preconceived notions on them?
Having said that, I am a Nature worshiping Pagan. Why? Because I can see, smell, touch and hear the world around me and I have yet to met a bush that I can not put out with a fire extinguisher.
Post by
Squishalot
Having said that, I am a Nature worshiping Pagan. Why? Because I can see, smell, touch and hear the world around me and I have yet to met a bush that I can not put out with a fire extinguisher.
Why would you put out a bush with a fire extinguisher if you worship nature?
Post by
Queggy
@ Queggy - still hoping you can answer my question from before - what makes God's promise any more believable than any promises that I make to you? How can you, a modern person, know that I am not one of God's angels, conveying a message to you?
Faith.
Honestly, that sums up everything. Either you have faith and believe or you don't. That's all there is to it. I can't describe my faith to you, and you can't describe any faith in anything you have to me.
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