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Why Your Religion?
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Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
I really don't know enough about 9/11 to take a real stance on it.
We should have a debate on 9/11.
T3h g0v1/1m4n75, 4 r331!
Post by
Skreeran
Anyway, I recommend watching the movie. I typically have supported the official report for 9/11, but even I find it interesting, especially the religion part.
Post by
Squishalot
I'll put my hand up and say that I'm a pathological arguer :)
I mean seriously, I've been arguing with you guys mostly just to give you some opposition. It's challenging to argue from a perspective that you don't believe.
(Except the bit about people who have no strong beliefs not being legitimately allowed to challenge a person's beliefs. That, which I realised as a result of this thread, is something I do think quite strongly of. So thanks to you all for helping me learn something, even if you may disagree with it.)
I just hate religion as a whole, not necessarily every person who follows it (although I certainly hate many, many of them on a case-by-case basis).
See, this is where I have to disagree. I don't hate religion, I look at each person on a case by case basis. The fundamentalists, the extremists, most of these people aren't reflective of the religion as a whole. When people start sterotyping Christians by the extremist pastors who gun down doctors, and not by the people in the Vatican, I shake my head and wonder if we should start stereotyping them by all the other insane non-theist people out there. Stereotyping isn't good, full stop.
Skree - re: that comic you posted - I'm fairly certain that Christians will know what it takes to change their mind, even if it needs
Rowan Atkinson
...
Post by
Skreeran
I don't stereotype people. I hate religion as a concept. On a case-by-case basis, I have come to grow to hate many religious people, but I don't hate them simply because they're religious.
Post by
Squishalot
Then why do you hate religion? What is there to 'hate' about it? Without going into semantics, that's a pretty strong word.
Do you hate quantum physics as well?
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
What I hate about religion is the fact that it is a lie (as far as I can see), that is frequently used to control people (historically we know this to be true), that can incite people to negative action, violence, and bigotry. All because of some that isn't real (again, as far as I can see).
In addition, it makes promises that it cannot keep. I hear about terminally ill children told that they can be healed if they pray hard enough, only to grow even more sick, left with the belief that they didn't pray hard enough. I watched my pets die of cancer and liver failure, despite my prayers.
I begged God for help and heard nothing in response. I suffered an extreme version of ones childhood discovery that Santa Claus didn't exist. There was no Heaven Express to reaffirm my belief. I heard no comforting words in my heart. Just nothing. Nothing there. I can't even begin to put on paper the emotional anguish I felt upon realizing that everything my parents had taught me was a lie. No loving creator. No afterlife. No "all things work together for good." None of it was true.
Religion lied to me, and I got hurt because of it. I hate religion.
For more, please read
this
. (Mildly NSFW: Language.)
Post by
Squishalot
Do you hate quantum physics as well?
I don't think anyone has caught on to the similarities yet. At least, it doesn't seem like it since it's been mostly ignored.
I know, it's sad, that. Skreeran's admitted he doesn't know much about quantum physics, but that just highlights the fact that people don't appreciate the similarities.
Having said that, if he doesn't know much about some of the other religions (i.e. not Christianity), then would it be right to hate them either?
Post by
Skreeran
Do you hate quantum physics as well?
I don't think anyone has caught on to the similarities yet. At least, it doesn't seem like it since it's been mostly ignored.
I know, it's sad, that. Skreeran's admitted he doesn't know much about quantum physics, but that just highlights the fact that people don't appreciate the similarities.
Having said that, if he doesn't know much about some of the other religions (i.e. not Christianity), then would it be right to hate them either?Christianity is the primary target of my hate, but I also hate the other Abrahamic religions--Judaism and Islam--( though again, not necessarily Jews and Muslims, just the religion as a whole), especially the way they are practiced in the Middle East, where they originated.
I don't hate the other religions that much, but Judaism, Islam, and Chrisitanity make up a very large part of all religions.
Edit: And please read that link I gave you. It really gives a good idea of what I mean.
Post by
Squishalot
I just finished reading it, that's a lot of anger. Is that your blog? Or just something that reflects your view?
Post by
Skreeran
I just finished reading it, that's a lot of anger. Is that your blog? Or just something that reflects your view?No, it's not mine, but it's by a person that I greatly respect.
Post by
TheMediator
Once you see mass murder in the name of quantum physics your argument may be acknowledged.
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Ok then.
The only thing I want to point out is the fact that the majority of the anger in that blog, and in your post above, can be attributed to individuals.
Christianity has been used by certain people in the past to incite violence. But the fact that there are some stupid people out there who promote violence in Christianity's name doesn't take away from the fact that the essential Christian message is against violence. Again - would you hate oil and gas, just because wars have been fought and riots had over the price of oil? People using it as a rallying tool is no reason to hate the religion, nor religion generally.
Christianity makes no promises about healing sick people. Individual pastors might say that, perhaps, and certainly, it will disillusion those family members of people who don't get better. But there are no promises in Christianity of anything until death. That much, at least, is very clear. Anyone telling you to pray should have told you to pray that Jesus would take care of your pet / family members, not in their current life, but their next.
In relation to the blog, Greta is angry about many things. But again, most of those things are due to a lack of understanding about accountability.
1) Only 45% of Americans would vote for an Atheist President. I tried to look up the Gallup poll, it appears it's no longer on the website. The problem with the poll (judging by the picture) is that it shows a two-answer result - 'yes I would vote for', or 'no I wouldn't vote for'. To me, I don't see that as surprising. America is highly religious, and it would be stupid of the people to elect a President who didn't believe in what they believed in.
To me, this poll appears to be asking the question "assuming the policies are identical, would you prefer an Atheist or a Christian President?" It says nothing about policy, which should be the real reason why you would vote for a person, religious beliefs aside.
2) Atheist conventions having extra security. Perhaps this is the case in the US. I, however, had to trudge my way to work through the extra security around World Youth Day in Sydney not too long ago. I would disagree that atheist conventions get any more or less attention than Christian events.
Ok, there are a number of topics in the blog that I can't really go into, because I have neither time nor understanding of the issues (eg, the US armed forces discrimination), but all I will say is that in most cases, her anger is reflective of individual stupidity, and not the religion as a whole - whether it's George Bush, US army officers, or church leaders with outspoken and not-in-line opinions.
There are also a number of society-based topics, for example, the right for atheists to serve jury duty in Texas. As can be evidenced by this blog, atheists have particularly strong views, generally speaking (and I'm talking real 'there is no God' atheists). These people are likely to be biased against religious people, thus biasing them out of contention for jury duty. In general, it would seem reasonable that a highly religious society would want to put religious people in positions of power, because their beliefs are aligned.
This goes again back to the Presidential question - if you're an atheist, would you want a Christian President? "80% of atheists say no to religious Presidents, showing a lack of tolerance and growing discrimination in non-secular ranks". No matter which way you turn it, you'll vote for the people who have your interests at heart, and it's not fair to hate on religion for providing a baseline of mutual interests.
Look at the points about her sexuality. She and Ingrid can't legally get married. But that's the same in Australia, and we have a much smaller religious population than you. The thing is, many non-religious people also have issues with gays and lesbians, even those who aren't brought up in a religious background. My dad is relatively borderline homophobic, and he's not Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or part of any other religion with an anti-homosexuality view. It's a social thing.
Apologies for the wall of text. But really, it's not religion's fault, for the acts of its members. Again, there have been many cases of non-religious people being discriminatory and inflammatory throughout the years also. By the same argument, we should just hate on mankind, rather than religion.
Post by
Squishalot
Once you see mass murder in the name of quantum physics your argument may be acknowledged.
That would be stereotyping. Hate on the mass murderers, not the religion.
Post by
Skreeran
Religion (at least where I live), however, seems to breed bigotry and ignorance. I live in Texas, and I absolutely hate Christianity here. Perhaps it's peaceful and nice on paper (although, it really isn't if you look at the Old Testament), but there are many types of Christianity, Judaism, and Islams that I absolutely hate in practice.
The fact is, the religion is practice by the people. Most denominations that I myself have encountered and read about do in fact believe in prayer-based healing, and hell, and that homosexuality is an abomination, and I hate them.
And then, of course, there's the pain that religion has caused myself personally.
Once you see mass murder in the name of quantum physics your argument may be acknowledged.
That would be stereotyping. Hate on the mass murderers, not the religion.But religion
caused
it. Not just people. They didn't get the ideas for their hate crimes from nowhere. It says in the bible to kill homosexuals, and so they do.
Post by
Squishalot
The fact is, the religion is practice by the people.
Then you should hate on the aspects that are practiced by those people, not the religion as a whole.
I don't dislike my girlfriend's Catholic priest, just because of the crimes committed by priests elsewhere in the world.
I think that the problem is the fact that you live in Texas, a place fairly well reknown for its fundamentalist Christians. Perhaps if you visited other localities, and met other Christians, you would realise that the problem isn't with Christianity, it's with the people you see practising Christianity. What you'll find is that generally, they're intelligent, well reasoned people. Most Australian Christians don't believe that the world began 6000 years ago, for example.
(Which may be why, again, Americans have such a bad reputation across the rest of the globe...)
Most denominations that I myself have encountered and read about do in fact believe in prayer-based healing
That's not true. Most denominations believe that healing
may
help. Not that it will help. "If it's God's will that your brother gets better, then he will."
But religion caused it. Not just people. They didn't get the ideas for their hate crimes from nowhere. It says in the bible to kill homosexuals, and so they do.
It doesn't. It says that homosexuality is a sin. It says that you should discourage them from being homosexual. But it also says that you should love them all the same, and still treat them with respect.
The problem is that certain groups of people take one part of the religion and ignore the rest. These are extremists, and are the same type of people who look for the 40 virgins in the afterlife when they board planes with bombs. Again, it's not truly reflective of the religion as a whole.
It's the equivalent of a huntard claiming "But I was told I do good damage with my auto-shot!" Hate the player, not the class. It's sad that there are so many huntards around. But the hunter class itself is fine.
Post by
Monday
But religion caused it. Not just people.
Let's take a look at the godless communists for a moment here.
Edit: I am mainly referring to the old Soviet Union.
Edit 2: And China.
Post by
Skreeran
It doesn't. It says that homosexuality is a sin. It says that you should discourage them from being homosexual. But it also says that you should love them all the same, and still treat them with respect.Incorrect.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood upon them.It's that sort of things that causes hate crimes against them.
Thousands of atrocities were and still are committed in the name of religion. I hate PETA as well, for their similar ignorance and extremism.
In my eyes, religion is a virus of the mind.
Also, do you feel strongly in love or hatred of Religion? If not, then you shouldn't question how I feel about it.
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