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Why Your Religion?
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Post by
Orranis
If you are so confident God will heal you, why do you bother with modern medicine?
A. Common sense. God wants you to try and do things yourself, and come to him only if you are in dire troubles.
B. The prophet says it is good.
If you are so confident God will heal you, why do you bother with modern medicine?
This. We don't disbelieve in evolution, we just disbelieve that humans evolved from apes or whatnot.
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and amultiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his akind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
And of course, cows and chickens. The animals that are alright to slaughter. Not to mention that we all just happened to skip that piece of history where we had to evolve onto land.
Sorry, this just seems like such a bad answer to the question.
Why is it a bad answer? It's science, I thought that was good =P
Because the question is why would God do that to someone, and your answer had nothing to do with God.
Post by
TheMediator
Also, after the fact claims are worthless - if some could with a high level of certainity point out who will and won't survive because of God's choosing against scientific evidence and be shown right, you might be able to consider it evidence.
There is no such thing as evidential causation, only correlation. If someone prays, and 5 minutes later, the person praying for gets better, it's circumstantial, but if someone plugs in a drug and 5 minutes later, the person drugged up gets better, it's science?
Every time a drug doesn't work to help someone in hospital, is that evidence that medical science doesn't work?
Have you taken any basic statistics classes? How experimental design works to me seems like it should be something that every person is society understands, although I guess sadly it is not that way. Science doesn't just take a chemical, throw it out there and say "This works", there is a rigorous set of testing that drugs undergo before said drugs are declared to be effective, and even then those drugs may undergo further testing to look for any side effects that may occur. When someone comes out with a scientific double blind study that shows that praying to the Christian God is more effective than a placebo of praying to another deity, then maybe your "miracles" can be considered evidence.
Post by
Squishalot
I'm a bottom line guy. If it takes anger to get mankind to open his eyes, I'll be happy to get angry.
Again, you've just justified every hate crime committed in the world. Monster.
Have you taken any basic statistics classes?
I think you've forgotten that I majored in Actuarial Studies, bachelor and masters. And that I've got an honours degree in Finance. But that's alright, I don't make a big deal about it. Only when people challenge my underlying understanding of statistics and probability.
Science doesn't just take a chemical, throw it out there and say "This works", there is a rigorous set of testing that drugs undergo before said drugs are declared to be effective, and even then those drugs may undergo further testing to look for any side effects that may occur.
My point was when doctors use a drug that they believe should work, and doesn't work. Did you honestly think that I was referring to just pumping random chemicals into a sick person?
When someone comes out with a scientific double blind study that shows that praying to the Christian God is more effective than a placebo of praying to another deity, then maybe your "miracles" can be considered evidence.
I actually don't think that that would work, using Adamsm's point on multiple religions all pointing to the same God. You would need to do a study showing that praying (to any God) is more effective than not praying at all. The placebo could be simply telling patients that a group of nuns in the hospital were praying for them, irrespective of whether they actually were or not. So you set up three test groups - tell the patient and pray (the actual test), tell the patient and don't pray (placebo), don't tell the patient and pray (no undue influence), and the control group of not telling the patient and not praying.
The problem is that experiments of this sort aren't ethical anymore. That, and they're heavily biased by the kind of illness that a person is suffering. You'd need a pretty long study to make it work to balance out the random illnesses that could inflict a person.
Post by
TheMediator
And I'm a space wizard. See how easy it is to say something on the internet? Your ignorance of causation, experimental design, and logic betray your supposed mastery of statistics.
Post by
Squishalot
And I'm a space wizard. See how easy it is to say something on the internet? Your ignorance of causation, experimental design, and logic betray your supposed mastery of statistics.
Your experimental design was flawed. Go back to your oh-so-difficult stats classes then.
Or, perhaps, go back to high school and learn basic comprehension. If you can't understand the context in which a statement is made, I don't want to talk to you.
Post by
Skreeran
Again, you've just justified every hate crime committed in the world. Monster.Did I ever once say that I was willing to go to violence?
There's no law against being angry.
Post by
Monday
Because the question is why would God do that to someone, and your answer had nothing to do with God.
That's because the question was stupid. It wasn't God that did that, it was your parent's genes or standing next to the microwave, etc.
And of course, cows and chickens. The animals that are alright to slaughter. Not to mention that we all just happened to skip that piece of history where we had to evolve onto land.
I'm not seeing what you are trying to say here.
I don't believe humans evolved from a lower life form at all.
Post by
Squishalot
Again, you've just justified every hate crime committed in the world. Monster.Did I ever once say that I was willing to go to violence?
There's no law against being angry.
There are laws against discrimination. Would you hire a Christian (over an atheist) to work with you?
Post by
Skreeran
Because the question is why would God do that to someone, and your answer had nothing to do with God.
That's because the question was stupid. It wasn't God that did that, it was your parent's genes or standing next to the microwave, etc. God gave you your genes. God created cancer. God foresaw that your parents would produce you, causing you to be born with agonizing cancer.
And of course, cows and chickens. The animals that are alright to slaughter. Not to mention that we all just happened to skip that piece of history where we had to evolve onto land.
I'm not seeing what you are trying to say here.
I don't believe humans evolved from a lower life form at all.Of course. And the universe is 6-10 thousand years old too, right?
Post by
Monday
Of course. And the universe is 6-10 thousand years old too, right?
Nope. I don't take the Bible seriously. How many times do I need to say that?
God gave you your genes. God created cancer. God foresaw that your parents would produce you, causing you to be born with agonizing cancer.
Ah, but it was your parent's genes that mutated and created cancer, not the genes that God gave your distant ancestors.
God gave you your genes.
No, it was your parent's that passed on your genes biologically.
Post by
TheMediator
That's because the question was stupid. It wasn't God that did that, it was your parent's genes or standing next to the microwave, etc.
God is responsible for all your triumphs, you are responsible for all your faults. Sort of seems like a *!@#$%bag stealing all the credit.
I don't want to talk to you.
Good, I don't care what you have to say, because you're either full of crap or just totally ignorant of everything you were supposed to learn while getting your degree. I don't understand how someone could be so ass backwards about how things work and supposedly have an understanding of statistics...
Post by
Skreeran
Again, you've just justified every hate crime committed in the world. Monster.Did I ever once say that I was willing to go to violence?
There's no law against being angry.
There are laws against discrimination. Would you hire a Christian (over an atheist) to work with you?That depends of the christian's qualifications of course. And I don't blame the christian for his faith, I blame the system for instilling that blind faith into him. It's the system I want to remove, and it's the system that I hate.
Post by
Orranis
Because the question is why would God do that to someone, and your answer had nothing to do with God.
That's because the question was stupid. It wasn't God that did that, it was your parent's genes or standing next to the microwave, etc.
So why did he allow the gene to mutate to a horrible disease? If I see a baby on traintracks and don't take it off and it dies, would you say I'm not responsible.
And of course, cows and chickens. The animals that are alright to slaughter. Not to mention that we all just happened to skip that piece of history where we had to evolve onto land.
I'm not seeing what you are trying to say here.
I don't believe humans evolved from a lower life form at all.
I'm saying that while perhaps it doesn't conflict with evolution as a fundamental, it does conflict with the accepted theories of what happened. The bible states that birds, fish, and mammals all coexisted at the beginning of the bible.
Post by
Monday
God is responsible for all your triumphs, you are responsible for all your faults. Sort of seems like a *!@#$%bag stealing all the credit.
What?
Post by
Skreeran
Alright, I'm tired of arguing. I'm in Black Temple. I'll probably join in tomorrow, but I'm really getting sick of this.
Post by
Squishalot
Good, I don't care what you have to say, because you're either full of crap or just totally ignorant of everything you were supposed to learn while getting your degree. I don't understand how someone could be so ass backwards about how things work and supposedly have an understanding of statistics...
Explain precisely where I've said something that's statistically inaccurate? I'm happy to take it back if you can find something.
I'll expect an apology if you can't demonstrate something.
That depends of the christian's qualifications of course. And I don't blame the christian for his faith, I blame the system for instilling that blind faith into him. It's the system I want to remove, and it's the system that I hate.
I blame the American system for churning out people willing to invade other countries on a hunch, but that doesn't mean that I hate it, nor would I level hate on the people who made those decisions either.
Alright, I'm tired of arguing. I'm in Black Temple. I'll probably join in tomorrow, but I'm really getting sick of this.
Have fun. Don't bother arguing if you're tired of it - it's not worth riling yourself up over something that you don't want to discuss. Utility maximisation would suggest that you're better off not staying involved in the debate if you're sick of it.
Post by
TheMediator
God is responsible for all your triumphs, you are responsible for all your faults. Sort of seems like a *!@#$%bag stealing all the credit.
What?
The statement is as clear as day. It is a @#$%^&bag move to expect credit for all successes while deflecting blame.
Post by
Squishalot
God is responsible for all your triumphs, you are responsible for all your faults. Sort of seems like a *!@#$%bag stealing all the credit.
What?
The statement is as clear as day. It is a @#$%^&bag move to expect credit for all successes while deflecting blame.
Who said that God is responsible for the triumphs? We're all responsible for our own everything.
Post by
Orranis
Mediator, I find your being more of a liability for our side then a help. At first you were using well argued points, but now your just seem to be blindingly lashing out with anger and frustration, with no fortifications of your points.
Post by
TheMediator
So what does God do?
Mediator, I find your being more of a liability for our side then a help. At first you were using well argued points, but now your just seem to be blindingly lashing out with anger and frustration, with no fortifications of your points.
This isn't a war, this is a discussion, and it would be a straw man to assume that defeating my arguments defeats any other arguments, so don't worry.
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