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Post by
Jubilee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWLJZw9Ws-g
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
But the kind of rapes we've been talking about, a guy at a party who takes advantage of a woman who passed out, or date rapes in general, are about getting laid, plain and simple.
Yes but they still don't care about what you wear. I recall seeing a documentary where a woman was date raped (so the only "irresponsible" thing she did was think that she could trust her date to give her something to drink) and what she was wearing was like a suit of armor, and that man obviously did not care.
I myself was once waiting for my mom to pick me up when a man approuced me in a very threatening way (if my mom had not showed up I don't want to think of where that would have gone) and I was wearing jeans, a long sweater, a hoodie and a jacket. I was in no way showing off any skin, in fact, I looked a bit like a pile of clothes.
So yeah maybe walking outside in a short skirt isn't the best idea ever, but apparently walking outside at all if you're a woman isn't. Actually no, don't exist at all because rapists can come to you too. Just be a white man.
Wait no don't be a white man you might get beat up for being white. Same if you're black. Or asian.
Just don't exist at all, let's all be safe and not exist.
Well we covered rape, racism, religion, abortion, and feminism this week, lets let this post about personal safety lead in to the inevitable gun control debate to round off the perfect cocktail of controversy that has been the forums these past few days.
Post by
MyTie
Elura, your strawman is the claim that we think all rapists go after women who wear promiscuous clothing. That's not the claim. The claim is that promiscuous clothing, in some circumstances, isn't a wise choice.
Further, white men do get raped sometimes. But, we can't talk about that, because white men are the oppressors, NEVER the victim.
Post by
Gone
white men are the oppressors, NEVER the victim.
Step into a prison and say that...
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
white men are the oppressors, NEVER the victim.
Step into a prison and say that...
Twas sarcasm.
Post by
Gone
I just find mytie's point of "you're responsible of being safe" to be kind of sick if being safe means doing nothing at all. Yes I will try my best to keep safe, because that doesn't mean I want to lock myself in a bombproof shelter and cover every inch of my skin. I have the right to be my own woman, walk outside in the dark, wear whatever I want (I happen to love to wear small dresses, thank you very much) and drink if I so choose. Maybe you're the one responsible for not running after me with a gun all the time to keep me safe.
I understand what he was saying about dressing modestly for safety reasons. I think anybody with a teenage daughter thinks that way. My issue was when he started to bring the
morality
of the way she dressed into the equation. white men are the oppressors, NEVER the victim.
Step into a prison and say that...
Twas sarcasm.
I know, I was joking Xp
Post by
MyTie
I just find mytie's point of "you're responsible of being safe" to be kind of sick if being safe means doing nothing at all. Yes I will try my best to keep safe, because that doesn't mean I want to lock myself in a bombproof shelter and cover every inch of my skin. I have the right to be my own woman, walk outside in the dark, wear whatever I want (I happen to love to wear small dresses, thank you very much) and drink if I so choose. Maybe you're the one responsible for not running after me with a gun all the time to keep me safe.
And this is the part where I say something like "don't wear a mini skirt, drunk, in a dark alley". Not that you shouldn't be able to do that, but it isn't the wisest thing. Not to say you should live in a bomb shelter, but there is a certain amount of rational to which we should apply the decision to take on risk.
I find it incomprehensible that I am a bad guy for taking that position.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Again I think women should be able to wear as "&*!@ty" and "trampy" clothes as they want, morality has nothing to do with it, and he's just full of $%^&. But let's be honest if we want to teach our daughters to be safe, don't tell them what to wear, teach them how to kick ass or give them a suitable weapon, it's the ONLY way to be safe if you're going to step out in the real world.
My 18 year old daughter, drunk, in a mini skirt, in a dark alley, with a gun. How could this go wrong?
Post by
Nathanyal
Elura, your strawman is the claim that we think all rapists go after women who wear promiscuous clothing. That's not the claim. The claim is that promiscuous clothing, in some circumstances, isn't a wise choice.
To add on to this, neither is going to a party and getting so drunk that you black out.
Yes rape is bad
, bold and underline to show that I know that. But setting yourself up so you can be raped is just as bad. If the girl that got drunk and passed out didn't get drunk and passed out, she wouldn't have been unconscious while she was being sexually assaulted.
I just find mytie's point of "you're responsible of being safe" to be kind of sick if being safe means doing nothing at all.
You don't have to do nothing. You can drink, but don't drink in excess that you have no idea what is going on.
It is bad the girl was raped. It is 100% the rapist fault she got raped. But if she had any bit of self-control she wouldn't have been passed out drunk in a house full of strangers.
Post by
Squishalot
And this is the part where I say something like "don't wear a mini skirt, drunk, in a dark alley". Not that you shouldn't be able to do that, but it isn't the wisest thing. Not to say you should live in a bomb shelter, but there is a certain amount of rational to which we should apply the decision to take on risk.
I find it incomprehensible that I am a bad guy for taking that position.
I know that MyTie doesn't read my posts, but someone might want to point out to him that the issue is not the fact that he would blame his teenage daughter if she got raped (which is fair enough), but that he would turn around and lecture her, after she was raped, when he picked her up naked from a random person's house, for dressing scantily and getting drunk.
If this was not the case, then the decency he would provide to give her space to reflect before it was no longer 'too soon' to talk about such things, would be the same sort of respect that we should be providing to other people in a similar position, at the very least.
Post by
Gone
I just find mytie's point of "you're responsible of being safe" to be kind of sick if being safe means doing nothing at all. Yes I will try my best to keep safe, because that doesn't mean I want to lock myself in a bombproof shelter and cover every inch of my skin. I have the right to be my own woman, walk outside in the dark, wear whatever I want (I happen to love to wear small dresses, thank you very much) and drink if I so choose. Maybe you're the one responsible for not running after me with a gun all the time to keep me safe.
I understand what he was saying about dressing modestly for safety reasons. I think anybody with a teenage daughter thinks that way. My issue was when he started to bring the
morality
of the way she dressed into the equation.
Again I think women should be able to wear as "&*!@ty" and "trampy" clothes as they want, morality has nothing to do with it, and he's just full of $%^&. But let's be honest if we want to teach our daughters to be safe, don't tell them what to wear, teach them how to kick ass or give them a suitable weapon, it's the ONLY way to be safe if you're going to step out in the real world.
I'm not saying I agreed with that position, but I understand it. And no, I would not arm teenage girls to keep them safe. Every father wants his daughter to be young and safe and innocent forever.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with him thinking that women should dress modestly, even though I disagree with it. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, even if it's one you disagree with.
My problem was that he was bringing it up in a conversation about a rape case, where other people brought up the way she dressed and acted as a way of excusing the rapist. This is neither the time nor the place to air an opinion like that. No matter how many times he says it doesn't excuse rape (and I'm sure he really believes that), bringing it up in this context carries some ugly implications that people who don;t know him could misconstrue.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Magician22773
You have no right what so ever to tell a woman what she can and can't wear unless it's harmful to others...
It is not about what they are wearing hurting someone else, it is about what they are wearing hurting
themselves
.
You have to be blind, ignorant, or just wanting to be argumentative to not see a correlation between how a young girl dresses, and activities she chooses to participate in, and an increased chance of being sexually assaulted.
It is not right that that is the case, but that is the way it is
. There are a lot of evil things wrong is this world, and this is one of them. You can ignore it, and you can go on your little rant about your "rights", or you can accept that telling a young girl to not add fuel to the fire of an already evil segment of society is not a bad idea.
In the US, nearly 1 in 5 women will be raped or sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Why on Earth would you want to argue for the "right" to wear a short skirt, if that "right" was a known, undeniable factor in that horrible statistic.
Rape is not about attraction: It's about power and force. What the women was wearing is not important to what happened to her.
In regards to the actual "activity", that is often the case, but attraction very often plays a significant role in a rapist choosing a victim. In the cases of date rape, attraction plays an even more significant role. And if a woman's attire is overly provocative, that is only going to increase the possibility of this type of rape by leaps and bounds.
Post by
MyTie
No I think women should be safe too, but you're the bad guy here for thinking you get to decide that wearing whatever I want makes me immoral and a tramp. You're the bad guy here for trying to police womens bodies. You're a MAN, you have no right to even have an opinion on what women do with their own bodies. (No this is not an abortion thing, I recognize that that doesn't only involve the one woman)
So, when a teenage girl wears a pushup bra, low cut midriff shirt, a mini skirt, and pumps, I am simply unable to disagree with that, for the sole reason that I have a penis?Again I think women should be able to wear as "&*!@ty" and "trampy" clothes as they want, morality has nothing to do with it, and he's just full of $%^&. But let's be honest if we want to teach our daughters to be safe, don't tell them what to wear, teach them how to kick ass or give them a suitable weapon, it's the ONLY way to be safe if you're going to step out in the real world.
My 18 year old daughter, drunk, in a mini skirt, in a dark alley, with a gun. How could this go wrong?
Your 18 year old daughter, sober, wearing an overall, on a street, without any way of protecting herself. How could this go wrong?
Note that I said SUITABLE weapon, if your daughter doesn't know how to use a gun or doesn't know gun safety, it's obviously not a suitable weapon.
When did I argue against arming women? When was this even brought up? I think Jubilee called this one.
Post by
Gone
You're a MAN, you have no right to even have an opinion on what women do with their own bodies.
I think this is where you take it a little too far. Everybody has the right to an opinion, berating him into silence is what a bully does.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
After all I'm the only one discussing this at the moment who's actually affected by this.
I am not affected by rape? It doesn't occupy my mind, the fact I have a teenage daughter?My problem was that he was bringing it up in a conversation about a rape case
If a girl's clothing could POSSIBLY contribute to the possibility of attracting the attention of a rapist, why would we want to hinder the discussion of clothing when talking about averting rape?
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