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@ Feminism
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Post by
Nathanyal
And I never said you argue against arming women? You just seemed to imply her having a gun was a bad idea.
Yeah because he is totally okay with his teenage daughter being drunk, in a mini skirt, in a dark alley.
/eyeroll
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
I already added something but everyone went right over it, so it seems I was already ignored.
But that's fine, I'm just some white male. My opinion doesn't matter.
Post by
Gone
If a girl's clothing could POSSIBLY contribute to the possibility of attracting the attention of a rapist, why would we want to hinder the discussion of clothing when talking about averting rape?
Again, my problem was with you bringing up the
morality
of dressing that way, not the practicality or irresponsibility of it. Also some of the language you used.
I also wanna point out that getting so drunk that she passed out was a lot more irresponsible than dressing a certain way.
Post by
Jubilee
I've stayed out of this discussion because it's a touchy subject for me. I feel I need to say one thing though. It seems to me that there are a lot of people in this thread who have never been the victim or been in immediate danger of becoming the victim of sexual assault. In America, 1 in 6 women have been the victim of at least attempted rape.
1 in 6.
Statistically, 5 of the 29 women on this forum who filled out
this poll
have has someone try to rape them at least once. This isn't some hypothetical or tangent issue where things like clothing matter. This is a sickness that permeates everything. You probably pass hundreds of women on an average drive to work. 1 in 6 of them have been the victim of attempted rape. I want you all to be very, very aware of this. And I want you all to really, really think about what your words mean and what affect they have on people who have experienced it and people who live their entire lives being scared of it. Stop and think about the people who are reading these comments who have been sexually assaulted. They are real and they are victims.
Post by
MyTie
Elura, probably the most offensive thing I can say to you right now, is that you and I agree on everything, except for what we call "immoral". I'm not calling you a tramp for the way you dress, or personally attacking anyone. Quite simply, things that the Bible speaks against are immoral, and the Bible says for women to dress modestly, therefore it is immoral not to. That's not some kind of "better than you" position I take to spit on women I think are tramps. That's just my religion. That's my opinion. If I saw you in person, dressed any way you want, even completely naked, I wouldn't insult you. I'd be polite, mind my manners, like I would with anyone. We are HERE to discuss opinions, so HERE I bring them up. That shouldn't mean that you can make broad conclusions on the way I conduct myself toward women. That assumption that you make is what is causing the ill will you feel toward me.I've stayed out of this discussion because it's a touchy subject for me. I feel I need to say one thing though. It seems to me that there are a lot of people in this thread who have never been the victim or been in immediate danger of becoming the victim of sexual assault. In America, 1 in 6 women have been the victim of at least attempted rape.
1 in 6.
Statistically, 5 of the 29 women on this forum who filled out
this poll
have has someone try to rape them at least once. This isn't some hypothetical or tangent issue where things like clothing matter. This is a sickness that permeates everything. You probably pass hundreds of women on an average drive to work. 1 in 6 of them have been the victim of attempted rape. I want you all to be very, very aware of this. And I want you all to really, really think about what your words mean and what affect they have on people who have experienced it and people who live their entire lives being scared of it. Stop and think about the people who are reading these comments who have been sexually assaulted. They are real and they are victims.This is very true. I don't want to elaborate, because I don't care to share, but it's sufficient to say that rape has personally affected me. You really have NO idea who rape has affected. That's why you should be careful who you tell to "shut up because you have no say".
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
After all I'm the only one discussing this at the moment who's actually affected by this.
I missed this earlier. I'm sure it's very difficult to be a teenage girl and feel in danger when some creep approaches you on the street. But women are not the only ones affected by this.
Set aside the fact that men can be the victims of sexual assault as well, and as children boys are about three times as likely to be molested by a stranger than girls.
Setting that aside, every father sees their daughters face when he reads a story about one of these girls being victimized. We all have mothers or sisters or daughters or wives or girlfriends that we love, and it would break out hearts to see anything like this happen to them.
I remember the day that I became really sensitive about rape. I used to not have a big opinion on it, other than the obvious fact that it's very bad. I was doing research for some freshman, English 101 paper about a year ago. The topic of the paper was the military's policy on reporting sexual abuse. I was watching a documentary called Invisible War (which I think everybody should watch btw) and taking notes. About a week earlier I saw a sign at my friends military base about the policy of reporting sexual assault and I took a picture of it. I wanted to take another look at what the options they listed were, so I opened up my phone and started looking through my pictures. About 90% of the pictures were of my fiance, or my and her together, and I as I was scrolling through I was listening to the women on the tv talk about their experiences being violated, while looking at her pictures, and the next thing I knew my hand was shaking, thinking about how it would feel to find out the woman I love had been taken advantage of. She is such a sweet, innocent, and extremely trusting person, I would rather die than have anything as terrible as that happen to her. Since that day I've never been able to listen to people talk flippantly about rape without wanting to punch them in the face.
Nobody wants to see a loved one put in danger or hurt. Women are
not
the only ones affected by this, and certainly not the only ones allowed to voice an opinion.
Post by
MyTie
Oh and Mytie, the thing is, if you have been affected, it will in no way be the same way as a woman being directly affected. That's why it's hard to discuss this with men.
I
refuse to explain this to you. Will someone else please?
Post by
Monday
Things like this makes me want to cry.
Not because he's an idiot, but because he and his friends probably agree and they probably have and will sexually assault women. And these women won't speak up because even the media will make them seem like nothing.
What is that picture referring to, beyond what seems to be a sexual assault case (obviously). I'd like to know specifics.
Post by
Squishalot
Things like this makes me want to cry.
Not because he's an idiot, but because he and his friends probably agree and they probably have and will sexually assault women. And these women won't speak up because even the media will make them seem like nothing.
What is that picture referring to, beyond what seems to be a sexual assault case (obviously). I'd like to know specifics.
It's the Steubenville case that's been in the headlines recently. A bit of Google will turn up the details, most of which has been inferred into examples in this thread.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Things like this makes me want to cry.
Not because he's an idiot, but because he and his friends probably agree and they probably have and will sexually assault women. And these women won't speak up because even the media will make them seem like nothing.
What is that picture referring to, beyond what seems to be a sexual assault case (obviously). I'd like to know specifics.
It's the Steubenville case that's been in the headlines recently. A bit of Google will turn up the details, most of which has been inferred into examples in this thread.
Oh. I usually try to keep up on the news, but I've been kind of behind for the past couple weeks. It hasn't been on the headlines of the only paper I really read, and I haven't read online news/watch news for awhile.
Post by
Skreeran
I already added something but everyone went right over it, so it seems I was already ignored.
But that's fine, I'm just some white male. My opinion doesn't matter.Be oppressed why doncha. White males have defined the American government for the last 200 years. %$@#. I'm a white male. I have a good middle class life, my parents are together, and I got a good education. My life isn't going to be ruined because women want to be treated as equals and it's politically incorrect for me to say the N-word.
Why don't you tell me how being a white male is so hard.I've stayed out of this discussion because it's a touchy subject for me. I feel I need to say one thing though. It seems to me that there are a lot of people in this thread who have never been the victim or been in immediate danger of becoming the victim of sexual assault. In America, 1 in 6 women have been the victim of at least attempted rape.
1 in 6.
Statistically, 5 of the 29 women on this forum who filled out
this poll
have has someone try to rape them at least once. This isn't some hypothetical or tangent issue where things like clothing matter. This is a sickness that permeates everything. You probably pass hundreds of women on an average drive to work. 1 in 6 of them have been the victim of attempted rape. I want you all to be very, very aware of this. And I want you all to really, really think about what your words mean and what affect they have on people who have experienced it and people who live their entire lives being scared of it. Stop and think about the people who are reading these comments who have been sexually assaulted. They are real and they are victims.I'm not a woman, and I have never been sexually assaulted, so I can't pretend to understand to know how it feels, but I really do try. I do my best to empathize with everyone I can, and I have read enough to know that rape or attempted rape can be one of the most terrifying and traumatic things a person can experience. I am also trying not to be some kind of white knight that thinks women are weak and in need of protection. It seems the best I can do to help, besides becoming some kind of vigilante, is to voice my condemnation against sex offenders and follow up and try to make sure that justice is carried out.
Also, I just want to reiterate, while drunkenness can certainly make a woman easier to assault, how she dresses really has almost nothing to do with it.
If she's at a party, passed out drunk, a rapist isn't going to go "Well, if she were dressed more provocatively, I'd rape her, but instead she's wearing a sweatshirt and jeans, so I'll leave her alone."
A rapist is going to go "Hey, free &*%$@," because he doesn't really care about how she's dressed, but about how easy she is going to be to victimize.
Likewise, if a rapist is lurking in a dark alley with intent to rape someone, he's going to try it no whether the woman is wearing a miniskirt or sweatpants. Because he is a rapist. He's not a passerby that thinks to himself "Oh, that woman is attractive. I think I'm going to force her to have sex with me against her will." He thinks "That woman hasn't noticed me yet. She's walking alone. I want to assert my dominance over woman/affirm my masculinity/get payback for a perceived offense by woman/listen to her whimper because I'm sick."
Rape as is being discussed (at a party or whatever) is done because someone has no respect for woman (or men, as the case may be), and wants to get a free, easy lay from a helpless person. How they dress doesn't matter.
Violent rape is done by sick people for power or out of anger. It has to do with either dominating or torturing their victim, and has nothing to do with attraction or sex.
Things like this makes me want to cry.
Not because he's an idiot, but because he and his friends probably agree and they probably have and will sexually assault women. And these women won't speak up because even the media will make them seem like nothing.
What is that picture referring to, beyond what seems to be a sexual assault case (obviously). I'd like to know specifics.
It's the Steubenville case that's been in the headlines recently. A bit of Google will turn up the details, most of which has been inferred into examples in this thread.
Oh. I usually try to keep up on the news, but I've been kind of behind for the past couple weeks. It hasn't been on the headlines of the only paper I really read, and I haven't read online news/watch news for awhile.Just read the most recent pages of the thread (ie. beginning post-bump). I hadn't heard of it either.
Post by
MyTie
I'm not saying it means less, I'm saying it's not the same thing! That should be obvious! If your wife was raped, you'd be highly affected by that and it would be difficult, but the experience would not be the same as what she is going through.
If you yourself was raped, it would be different too. And a lot of people might even argue that it would be harder to deal with.
Rape is a social and moral issue. As a human being, and member of society, it is a concern to me. As a dad, a husband, and owner of a physical body, it is a concern to me. Further, it has personally affected myself and the ones I love. All of these things, individually, qualify me to have a valuable input into the discussion. Together, they make my opinion very valuable. I feel like you are trying to disenfranchise my opinion, or somehow discredit me based on nothing else than my sex. I expect that you are going to disagree with me (you usually do), but try to do so based on what my arguments are, not who I am personally. That's called ad hominem. It's not an effective way of making a point.
Post by
Jubilee
Rape is a social and moral issue.
No, no, no, no,
no it's not
. It's a
PHYSICAL
and
PSYCHOLOGICAL
issue with social and moral ramifications.
Post by
MyTie
Rape is a social and moral issue.
No, no, no, no,
no it's not
. It's a
PHYSICAL
and
PSYCHOLOGICAL
issue with social and moral ramifications.
I think we agree, but you take issue with my wording, and apparently severe issue, considering the number and boldness of the "no"s. Society has an issue, if there is any rape occurring in it. It is also immoral to rape someone. This was all I was trying to communicate, and meant in no way to diminish the other factors to consider when talking about rape.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Magician22773
white men are the oppressors, NEVER the victim.
Step into a prison and say that...
Twas sarcasm.
It shouldn't be.
Statistically speaking, I am somewhat abnormal. I do not personally have a close female relative of friend that has been raped, and I know a lot of women. Chances are, one or more of them have been, but I just do not know them well enough to be privileged to that information.
But I do have 2 very close male friends that have been raped while incarcerated. One of them in a county holding cell during a basic 20 hour hold for disorderly conduct, the other while serving a longer sentence in prison.
As many of you know, I spent some time locked up earlier in my life. My #2 fear while in jail, rape. Only thing I worried about more was flat out getting killed, and the two kinda went hand in hand, because they would have been raping a dead body, if I had anything to do with it. Yes, I am a very big guy. Plenty of guys in prison were bigger. And the fact that I am a big guy, made me somewhat of a target. I was told, more than once, that I had been targeted to be "punked". In prison, that has nothing to do with Ashton Kutcher.
And you know what...
I put myself in that situation.
I chose to use drugs. I chose to break the law. It did not justify the actions threatened against me, but I could have reduced my chances of being a victim had I made better choices. Women have the same options. They can reduce their chances of being a victim by making better choices.
Rape is rape (unless you are Todd Akin). I don't care if you are a woman or a man. And poor choices can have consequences, whether they are made by a man or woman.
After all I'm the only one discussing this at the moment who's actually affected by this.
So yeah...kinda blows this right outa the water.
Post by
MyTie
When I base something only on your sex, it's when you try to police womens bodies and sometimes you seem to think you're entitled to take over our feminist movement, even if that's not the case, your gender is what will cause the reaction there.
What I mean with it being hard to discuss with men is that no matter how hard you try, you will never know what it's like. It's impossible to try to explain a feeling, like explaining a color to a blind person basically.
Here's the inverse of what you are saying. Please take note of how rude, sexist, and hateful it is.Trying to explain to women what it is like to be in a position of leadership, or responsibility, is impossible, since women aren't there, men are. Therefore, women should stop trying to understand it. They should stick to the roles that they are designed for, as women. It is simply incompatible with their minds to understand what it is like to NOT be subjugated to the kitchen, therefore don't even bother talking to them about it. They should accept what they are, blind, and incapable of having this conversation.
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