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@ Feminism
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
In Iran, some men were sentenced by a judge to wear women's clothing in public to humiliate them. In response, the men proudly donned the women's clothes and posed for pictures as well as started a facebook page to protest the idea that being or dressing like a woman is something to be ashamed of
http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201304222317-0022695
https://www.facebook.com/KurdMenForEquality
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, that is quite awesome.
Post by
Eccentrica
The real underlying problem which feminism attempts to correct is that of imposed definitions and standards. Ironically the Feminism movement is itself guilty of it. It's about control.
There are implicit or explicit attempts to control:
- how we dress
- how we appear
- how we are educated
- our level of participation in society
- our reproductive lives
- our health
- our employment
- our leisure activities
You can find examples today all over the world, in every country, in every society where this occurs, even in 'civilized' societies. No matter what we do or don't do, there is someone waiting in the wings ready to pass judgement and attempt to alter our behaviour to suit their world view.
I will raise my children myself and forgo working while they are small, and if Feminists don't like it, they can go pound sand.
I will cut my hair as I like, and wear what pleases me and if Patriarchs don't like it, they too can go pound sand.
I don't define myself as a feminist. I define myself as a person, which means I will do what is right for me as an individual human being, and what is right for the people I love. I get one shot at life (as far as I know - so I'll just assume that is correct and not squander it), so I'll live it my way. Go live your own life and stop concerning yourself with mine.
Post by
MyTie
The real underlying problem which feminism attempts to correct is that of imposed definitions and standards. Ironically the Feminism movement is itself guilty of it. It's about control.
There are implicit or explicit attempts to control:
- how we dress
- how we appear
- how we are educated
- our level of participation in society
- our reproductive lives
- our health
- our employment
- our leisure activities
You can find examples today all over the world, in every country, in every society where this occurs, even in 'civilized' societies. No matter what we do or don't do, there is someone waiting in the wings ready to pass judgement and attempt to alter our behaviour to suit their world view.
I will raise my children myself and forgo working while they are small, and if Feminists don't like it, they can go pound sand.
I will cut my hair as I like, and wear what pleases me and if Patriarchs don't like it, they too can go pound sand.
I don't define myself as a feminist. I define myself as a person, which means I will do what is right for me as an individual human being, and what is right for the people I love. I get one shot at life (as far as I know - so I'll just assume that is correct and not squander it), so I'll live it my way. Go live your own life and stop concerning yourself with mine.
And this is an illustration of my greater point. This person correctly identifies the motives of modern feminism in their first line. From there, comes a rejection of the entire thing, and rightly so. This is how the modern world sees modern feminism. This is the problem with crying about the patriarchy, and marching in *!@# walks. It alienates people. Feminism should be about helping the poor people who are treated like luggage, bought and sold, burned with acid, forced into marriage, intimidated out of education, etc. If the modern world associated feminism with those things, instead of stopping men from slouching on trains in Sweden, then more people would support it.
Post by
Eccentrica
Feminism should be about helping the poor people who are treated like luggage, bought and sold, burned with acid, forced into marriage, intimidated out of education, etc. If the modern world associated feminism with those things, instead of stopping men from slouching on trains in Sweden, then more people would support it.
Freedom is never 'granted'. It's taken. I believe in helping those who help themselves. Those people don't need White Knights riding in on chargers to rescue them (be they male or female), they need to rescue themselves.
That however, is simply my opinion. What they 'need' is up to them to decide.
Post by
MyTie
Feminism should be about helping the poor people who are treated like luggage, bought and sold, burned with acid, forced into marriage, intimidated out of education, etc. If the modern world associated feminism with those things, instead of stopping men from slouching on trains in Sweden, then more people would support it.
Freedom is never 'granted'. It's taken. I believe in helping those who help themselves. Those people don't need White Knights riding in on chargers to rescue them (be they male or female), they need to rescue themselves.
That however, is simply my opinion. What they 'need' is up to them to decide.
I also refuse to help
these
women, who are far to lazy to help themselves. The last thing they need is me standing up for their rights.
Post by
Eccentrica
If that was an attempt at inflaming me to reaction it failed miserably because I meant what I said. You would take my freedoms from me over my dead body and I can't fathom thinking any other way.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Forensic artist draws women both as they describe themselves and as another person describes them.
I don't know how scripted this is, nor do I know if it strictly is topical to feminism, but I think the message is pretty powerful.
Post by
asakawa
I don't really see that as pertaining to this topic. I've got to say that I didn't find it especially powerful either and I'm extremely sceptical about the whole setup. It's a lot of BS just to make the point, "stop focussing on your perceived bad points (but use our moisturiser)".
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I don't really see that as pertaining to this topic. I've got to say that I didn't find it especially powerful either and I'm extremely sceptical about the whole setup. It's a lot of BS just to make the point, "stop focussing on your perceived bad points (but use our moisturiser)".
I think this is where we very different views of things. I don't really care about the validity of the experiment or the fact that it has a corporate sponsor branded onto it. For me it's about the "poetry" of the situation. Like a fairy tale about a mirror that shows you as you imagine yourself, not as you are. It see it as an artistic appeal to our understanding of female beauty. And it's meant not to get you to know something, but rather to get you to imagine something.
Also my first thought seeing that was just, some people describe things differently..
I do believe that's the point.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Not to mention it's just natural that everyone sees and hears themselves differently than everyone else does. Ever listen to a recording of your own voice?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Not to mention it's just natural that everyone sees and hears themselves differently than everyone else does. Ever listen to a recording of your own voice?
Acoustics demonstrably accounts for most of that.
But I think the overall point is that YES people see themselves differently than other people see them. Yet in so many cases they themselves become their own critics, when in fact the people who are seeing them don't see, notice, or perhaps even care about whatever the defect or perceived defect might be.
Post by
Skreeran
Not to mention it's just natural that everyone sees and hears themselves differently than everyone else does. Ever listen to a recording of your own voice?
Acoustics demonstrably accounts for most of that.
But I think the overall point is that YES people see themselves differently than other people see them. Yet in so many cases they themselves become their own critics, when in fact the people who are seeing them don't see, notice, or perhaps even care about whatever the defect or perceived defect might be.Yes, it's acoustics, but I was making an analogy. I don't see my face unless I look into a mirror, so my self-image is less well defined than other peoples cataloged image of me. People in third world countries who can afford or acquire a mirror probably have an even less well defined self-image, and models who have to keep their appearance up or lose their career probably have a better defined self-image.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'm not sure I understand how that relates to what I said, except to tangentially agree with it. So, ok.
Post by
Skreeran
I think we're talking about different aspects of more or less the same thing. I'm talking about why there is an inherent disconnect between self-image and actual appearance and I think you're talking more about self-consciousness.
So perhaps I didn't understand at first which we were discussing.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I think you're talking more about self-consciousness
More or less, yeah.
Post by
Skreeran
What Superheroines would look like if they wore clothes.
I think
Elektra
and
Supergirl
are my favorites. They're all good though.
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