When do I gem for Arpen as Frost DW Dps? Or should I just stick with Strength?

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Post by jynxycat

Yeah, I've had results of STR being rated ~2.6 EP rating or so, and Haste/ArP being just around 2, with Crit usually hovering around 1.7-1.8 -- all using Kahorie's DK sim. I usually try to redo my numbers every once in awhile after getting new gear, and this is fairly consistent.

That said, ArP doesn't look like it's better as a total swap, and this is around 5.8k gs type gear.

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Post by woohaa

there is no AP cap. the 6500AP number was put out when ulduar came out and it was possible to hit the ArP cap. At that point it was tested that gemming for ArP would increase your DPS more then str. However, with the increase to the ArP cap gemming for ArP just isn't a dps increase until you hit certain lvls of BiS gear in a Blood spec...in which case you'll want to sim to figure out the best way to gem.

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Post by hashmel

The following ignore armor, derive no additional benefit from armor penetration, and are reasonably at a Frost Death Knight's disposal depending on the given situation.

Icy Touch
Frost Fever
Blood Plague
Blood Boil
Glyph of Chains of Ice
Corpse Explosion
Death and Decay
Death Coil
Frost Strike
Howling Blast

The following are mitigated by armor, affected by armor penetration, and reasonably at a Frost Death Knight's disposal depending on the given situation.

Blood Strike
Obliterate
Plague Strike
Rune Strike
Death Strike
and Auto Attacks

1/3 of the abilities available to a Frost Death Knight benefit from ArP, 2/3 don't.
5 of the ones that do not benefit from ArP are staple abilities in the rotation, 3 of the abilities that do benefit from ArP are staple abilities in the rotation.

I don't play Frost myself but I doubt Blood Strike, Obliterate, and Plague Strike amount to a larger percentage of your damage than Icy Touch, Frost Fever, Blood Plague, Frost Strike, and Howling Blast.

I also doubt that buffing just Blood Strike, Obliterate, and Plague Strike by stacking ArP will ever prove more lucrative than buffing Blood Strike, Obliterate, Plague Strike, Icy Touch, Frost Fever, Blood Plague, Frost Strike, and Howling Blast by stacking strength.

Also, ArP may buff Rune Strike and Death Strike but if you're using Rune Strike or Death Strike then dps isn't your concern, staying alive or generating threat through Rune Strike's threat modifier are. On the other hand, strength will also buff those and other abilities like Death and Decay that a Frost DK will use, just not on a standard boss fight.

Post by Paolo

The following ignore armor, derive no additional benefit from armor penetration, and are reasonably at a Frost Death Knight's disposal depending on the given situation.
...
Glyph of Chains of Ice
Corpse Explosion
Yes, you're right. You don't play frost :)

1/3 of the abilities available to a Frost Death Knight benefit from ArP, 2/3 don't.Oblit and melee auto-attacks should make up about 50% of your DPS. This is a more relevant metric than the number of available skills.

I'm not defending ArP in this post... just good statistics :)

Post by hashmel

The following ignore armor, derive no additional benefit from armor penetration, and are reasonably at a Frost Death Knight's disposal depending on the given situation. Even stated that only half of the ones listed were part of the staple Frost rotation, doesn't mean they can't/won't use any of the others given a specific situation such as soloing, pvp, aoe, only "slightly" terrible talent builds, etc.

1/3 of the abilities available to a Frost Death Knight benefit from ArP, 2/3 don't.Oblit and melee auto-attacks should make up about 50% of your DPS. This is a more relevant metric than the number of available skills.

I'm not defending ArP in this post... just good statistics :)

Given a raid boss fully debuffed will have 8088.68 armor or 34.68% physical damage reduction before ArP, 100% ArP will only increase your physical damage by up to 53%
100 - 34.68 = 65.32%
1000 * 0.6532 = 653.2
1000 * 1 = 1000
1000 / 653.2 = 1.53
or increasing your physical damage from ~50% to ~60% of your total damage dealt
0.5 * 1.53 + 0.5 = 1.265
0.5 * 1.53 / 1.265 = 0.6
for a total dps boost of up to 26.5% whereas stacking an equal amount of strength, where able, will increase the damage done by everything you do which will most likely amount to at least that.