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Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Demonology Meta Deviation.
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Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Crawshayi
First off, no it doesn't stack with Tuskarr's.
Secondly, 25 SP will NOT make up for the dps loss of not using CSD. Sim it if you want to find this out for yourself.
Another thing... what are you doing running around so much? Please don't tell me you are running up to the boss just to use Immolation Aura. Just because you're in Meta form doesn't mean you don't have to stand still to cast and that's pretty much what you'll still be doing during most boss fights aside from the occasional moving out of fire or whatever. Granted I use Tuskarr's on my boots but I would never give up 3% extra crit damage for a little extra run speed...
TSD is a
PvP
meta gem and not a very good one, at that.
Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Crawshayi
Apparently you didn't read my response then, because I clearly said I use Tuskarr's. Granted I use Tuskarr's on my boots but I would never give up 3% extra crit damage for a little extra run speed...
Anyway, stop beating around the bush here, your idea is just terrible.
Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Crawshayi
First of all, you're not giving any justification or math backing your statements against my theory, so your rebuttals are moot..
Did
YOU
do any math to back up your claim? Did you even sim it?
Let's do some quick napkin math. Say you have 3000 SP just as a nice round number. With DP active you would have 300 SP.
Now lets say you switch the meta gem and now you have 3025 SP. You would get 302.5 SP, and let's just say the game rounds up (I'm not sure if it does or not) you would get 303. A whopping 3 extra SP from DP. Let's go further and say you use +18 spirit on your boots now... that gives an extra 10.62 SP (lets call it 11) assuming you have the LT glyph. So now you have 3036 which brings you to 303.6 so rounding up you'd get 304 which nets you only 1 extra SP with the enchant.
So what do you lose from giving up CSD? This is taken from the comment section for the gem on wowhead:
The folks over at Elitist Jerks would have one believe you've got that backwards; the crit boost from the metagems is applied before the boosts from talents, which tends to make the gems even better.
The largest example is with shaman, warlock, or ice mage spells fully talented. The gem boosts total damage by 3% on a crit, which changes crit damage from 150% to (150% * 103%) = 154.5%, which makes the crit bonus +54.5%. This 54.5% number is what the talents affect, so when you add in Elemental Fury, Pandemic, Ruin, and/or Ice Shards you get a crit bonus of +109%, for a total crit damage 209%.
These are the easiest cases to calculate, because the difference between what you'd expect (from a straight 3% boost to critical damage) and what you get are larger
Similarly, for a hunter with Mortal Shots, the gem makes the crit damage 206%, for a base bonus of +106%, multiplied by Mortal Shots to make (106% * 130%) = 137.8%, or a total of 237.8% crit damage.
It's pretty clear that the personal dps you'd lose from dropping that meta will seriously hurt your dps and a lousy 4 extra SP that you might get on your DP will NOT make up for it.
Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
yeah i don't think it's a ridiculous idea by a long way. the FAQ had an optional meta for rDPS for quite a while before i took it down after doing some napkin math. the crit metas do give 9% and always did since the tBC version of that meta.
sadly it would take an age for me to find the post with that napkin math in it but it came down to two things. spellpower given to the raid and personal dps lost. it was something silly like only being a rDPS increase if your personal DPS was less than 2k (vague remembrance of a guestimate so don't take that figure too seriously).
CSDs are OP. if it weren't the case i'm sure demo locks would be using SP metas.
Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
i think there may be ways to add "actors" to a sim parse. it certainly used to be able to before they added the GUI so i'm sure they wouldn't have removed the feature. maybe do some reading around and see if you can figure out how to parse a full raid if it's something you're interested in getting figures for.
Post by
Carlotta
First off, no it doesn't stack with Tuskarr's.
Secondly, 25 SP will NOT make up for the dps loss of not using CSD. Sim it if you want to find this out for yourself.
Another thing... what are you doing running around so much? Please don't tell me you are running up to the boss just to use Immolation Aura. Just because you're in Meta form doesn't mean you don't r...
TSD is a
PvP
meta gem and not a very good one, at that. Nice tldr there. You didn't read my post AT ALL.
Regarding the speed, ANY serious raider should be using tuskarrs, the run speed can save your lifeNo, no and no. There is no such proof that Tuskarrs is the best enchant for boots, I dont disagree with you that its a very good enchant and I understand people using it. But it's still only a personal belief that Tuskarr would be better then any other enchant.
Post by
LookOut
No, no and no. There is no such proof that Tuskarrs is the best enchant for boots, I dont disagree with you that its a very good enchant and I understand people using it. But it's still only a personal belief that Tuskarr would be better then any other enchant.
Having Tuskarr's means getting out of bad shizz faster, and is OP on movement heavy fights (getting back to your spot faster = more time to dps).
What are the alternatives? 18 spirit or 12 hit/12 crit. I only see hit/crit being slightly useful IF you're not hit capped, and you SHOULD be hit capped by gear alone really.
Post by
asakawa
you say getting out of stuff faster but since all wow works on ticks there's basically no difference in getting out after one tick or just before the next even if that is almost a full second's difference.
any movement is fine as long as you've got useful things to do while moving so any small movements (a GCD or less) are fine and longer movement... well what are we talking about here?
any time you need to move for longer than a GCD you should be thinking about dropping a teleport circle anyway for things like rotface, getting back into position after running with your slimy add.
i'm totally with carlotta on this one. i use tuskarr's but i'm far from convinced it's doing anything for either my survivability or my dps (particularly my dps). meanwhile both the other options are very small but nonetheless
definitive
dps increases. and this is from someone who is involved in hard mode content so it's not a "you can get away with more on normal mode" thing ^_^
Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
there we go, we all use it but some are more convinced of it's usefulness than others.
defile is exactly what i'm talking about when i mention ticks though. it ticks every second. it is
possible
that the run speed enchant makes all the difference and allows you to get out before the first tick while an unenchanted person wouldn't... but do you really thin that's the case?
just move quickly and power word: shield will do the rest ^_^
Post by
340720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
343636
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
but the growing is triggered by the damage. no damage, no growing (hence: PW:S = good).
Post by
343636
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
fair enough. my point was about the moving, the PW:S was just for fun.
that said, my reference for PW:S's behaviour is:
A disc priest has another advantage here in dealing with defile, as your shields can absorb the first tick or so of it, keeping it from spreading on the slowpokes.
source:
how to disco with the lich king
this was posted on april 1st and i can't find patch notes or hotfixes that refer to defile since then.
if you say it's fixed then fine but you can keep your little "lol"s.
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