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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Gs Vs. Skill
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Post by
Fingulfin
@the "Skill not GS" people: Tell me how to measure skill and I'll completely forget about GS. The only way to go about pugg'ing is to assume that all players are terrible. You then need to know how geared they need to be for the gear to compensate for the terrible-ness. That threshold is ~5.9k GS in my book.
Yes, I am elitist. Yes, I am proud of myself and my toons perhaps to a fault. My favorite thing about "you people" is that you are all inexperienced. You haven't done HMs, you haven't even cleared ICC 10 on NORMAL... and yet you complain that all your skill is going to waste because people won't carry you through ICC. Run some darned heroics and find a guild.
For those of you who are 11/12 HMs in ICC 25 and only hate GS because of your alts, my heart goes out to you (as I am in the same boat). What is silly is when you, on your obviously proven skilled main, cannot get your alt into a group... What hurts more is knowing that your main has the 9th best GS on the server, lol.
Post by
Zakkhar
For example, you're putting together a group and you're looking for a mage. There are 2 mages available. One with 5000 GS and one with 5500 GS.
You don't know either of them, haven't grouped with them before.
Both have the same achievements and roughly the same number of kills per boss.
Both have their gear properly enchanted and socketed.
Both have a specc that seems apropriate.
Who'd you pick? The 5500 GS mage? Congrats!
Nope. I'd pick the one who is hit capped or the one who isnt hit overcapped or the one using proper trinkets instead of the E-peen Gs trinkets.
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331902
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Post by
pezz
Prove skill - You can ask a person you are not sure of to describe their role during each fight until you are satisfied they know what they are doing, Understanding fight mechanics is a skill. If they kinda stall after Saurfang then you know a lot more about them than a GS check will tell you.
You can copy paste that from any website without even reading it yourself.
I've known people who use gear score and who don't, and I've found the phrase 'insufferable elitist' applies so much more readily to the latter.
Post by
HoleofArt
All those who say using GS as a tool for pugging is bad are the fails who are too lazy to get their welfare epics and get that easy 5.2k GS.
Seriously.
Now, tell me this: How does this make me elitist when I miss my guilds 25m H ICC runs (god damn graduation classes) so when I decide to pug the raid, I request a 5700 gs minimum along with achievements of at least 9/12? That doesn't make me elitist. It makes me smart.
I'd be stupid to allow a 5300 GS who's never stepped foot into ICC into my raid. Unless I wanted an easy 4/12, (no), then why would I take players who clearly aren't ready for the bosses I plan on doing?
And to other people in this thread, no, using GS as a tool for PuGing does not make you a bad player, nor does it mean you were carried. (Please. Try and tell me I'm getting carried. I dare you.)
Stop acting like GS is so evil and quit being lazy. Finding a reg ICC 10m pug with a 5300 gs (easy to get if you're actually TRYING, which is what most raid leaders want to see. At least some dedication towards your character) and gearing from there is simple. Work your way up. Be less fail. This game isn't hard.
Post by
Zakkhar
Well, the point was to say that those mages are basically the same. As soon as the 5500 GS one gets invited although
there's something wrong
with him, the example doesn't work, I'm aware of that. And in that case, deciding because of a higher GS ist stupid, yes.
They cant be the same if one has 500 more GS than other. They may have better versions of same armor, sure. But this case is unrealistic. I dont use GS addon, i just check the gearing/gems/enchants, stats and/or
progress
. Most important traits are always honesty and respect. If a person tries to trick you in some way, you may be willing to look at them more carefully. I know pretty well about 70% of class/spec combinations in wow so i can validate usage of certain items. Whenever is see something suspicious or dumb i investicate further. Its extremly easy to tell apart a good player from a muppet this way. I dont use the stupid addon and dont want others to link me their gs, because honestly i dont have a clue what these numbers mean beside the fact people wear high ilvl gear that can be unenchanted/ungemmed/have resi instead of easily obtainable lower ilvl upgrades.
People lie about their dungeon experience. People lie about what boss encounters they are familiar and comfortable with. Some people even don't dare (or mind) to ask questions in situations and fights that are new to them. Those who don't lie have to suffer from that. That's people who not only know what to do but are sure they can (and will) actually do it. It's all the alts and talented but underachieving (not undergeared!) players who aren't getting into PuGs.
You got in game measures to verify that (compare achievements) you got out of game measures to verify that (pugchecker).
At least from what I experienced, most people just don't get rejected
only
because of GS. They're getting rejected because others seem to have more to offer.
Come to Balnazzar. There are situations where 25m ICC raid disbands because of lack of DPS (yes dps) due to RL having too high GS expectations (its clear than when people come to inspect he doesnt inspect them, just target them and read GS tooltip - because it lasts too short). People keep whining about "where is dps" "where are the tanks" "where are the healers" and we are still there just dont wanna go with GS tard RL's.
Afterall, people try to sneek into groups they don't belong in. Why is that? And what can we do about it? That's the things I keep asking instead of blaming GS for everything.
Why is that? Because some people prefer getting carried through exciting encounters and take a full part in loot sharing after.
Like I posted on another topic: Everything between 5.2k and 6k doesn't mean much, that's true. Yet, good gear is better that bad gear. You don't want bad players in your group, even if their gear is great. But what you certainly don't want is bad players in blues.
Comming in blues to any raid (even Nax) these days is lack of respect for other players who spent their precious time in minmaxing their chars to present level. Also called slacking. No slacking allowed.
Now, tell me this: How does this make me elitist when I miss my guilds 25m H ICC runs (god damn graduation classes) so when I decide to pug the raid, I request a 5700 gs minimum along with achievements of at least 9/12? That doesn't make me elitist. It makes me smart.
I'd be stupid to allow a 5300 GS who's never stepped foot into ICC into my raid. Unless I wanted an easy 4/12, (no), then why would I take players who clearly aren't ready for the bosses I plan on doing?
Stepping somewhere and getting the loot of it are two different things dude.
1. It must drop (it never does).
2. Pug leader/master looter must be not a ninja (rare sight).
3. You need to win the damn roll (rare case).
So pleease dont tell me that my warrior running Forge of Souls HC 45 time to get that damn ArP trinket doesnt know the encounters there because he doesnt have any drops from it. I also ran it over 30 times on hunter and numerous times on other chars. I am not stating its a viable anology, just pointing finger at your faulty reasoning.
Stop acting like GS is so evil and quit being lazy. Finding a reg ICC 10m pug with a 5300 gs (easy to get if you're actually TRYING, which is what most raid leaders want to see. At least some dedication towards your character) and gearing from there is simple. Work your way up. Be less fail. This game isn't hard.
I cant count the number of times I have been on my various chars in pugs doing full or close to full runs and never got a single drop from the run due to 3 rules posted above. Nobody is lazy. You are just illogical.
GS is extremly bad way of judging players. A short example are numerous melee dps and hunters using combination of these
two
trinkets
, which are not only badly itemised but also 99% of the time have their stats wasted due to massive hit overcap as well as not using the on use effect by these players. Would you pick such person or someone with DMC:G and Mirror of Truth or NES? Yes i got bad luck on trinkets (beside Satrina/Juggernaut), i got ilvl200 trinkets on most of my chars. Does it mean they are bad? No, they are
1000x times
better than this high ilvl misitemised crap.
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Post by
Rubendesmet619
Like has been said, inspecting>only looking at gearscore.
Skill doesn't come into play AT AL if they don't know you. You can tell them whatever the hell you want.
It get's rediculous though, I agree. I linked my insanity for a ToC25 run on my main and wasn't allowed to join on my alt because he "only" has 4.7k gearscore.
I remember clearing ToC25 easely with Ilv226 gear average in the guild :(.
Post by
Porcell
Saw someone looking for two DPS for a 10 ICC pug. I'm on my warlock and whisper to him for an invite. He responds with "GS?" I answered with "Higher than yours." He didn't appreciate it and said that was a mean thing to say. I called him a "Gearscore assclown." I didn't get a raid invite...
So, I'd never used Pugchecker before:
My Tank
. Really, I've done Violet Hold heroic 68 times?
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Like has been said, inspecting>only looking at gearscore.
Skill doesn't come into play AT AL if they don't know you. You can tell them whatever the hell you want.
It get's rediculous though, I agree. I linked my insanity for a ToC25 run on my main and wasn't allowed to join on my alt because he "only" has 4.7k gearscore.
I remember clearing ToC25 easely with Ilv226 gear average in the guild :(.
THIS is the major problem people have with GS. Folks who won't take appropriately geared people to raids, because they hope/think they can get overgeared people instead. It's similar to the job market - employers won't take a qualified person because they think they can get someone who's overqualified for the same amount. It works the same way with GS now. You can't get into raids unless you overgear it, and therefore don't need anything from it, because the guy running it is a scrub who wants to be carried.
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