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10.2.7
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Beta
Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
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Post by
asakawa
from the twitter chat:
Q: How will pets scale with Mastery their masters' Mastery?
A. The talent specializations that rely heavily on pets (Beast Mastery and Demonology, for example) have a Mastery that makes Mastery rating also increase pet damage. Other specializations that have pets, but whose pets do not benefit from Mastery, will have their Masteries balanced accordingly, taking into account that pets will not benefit from them.
so, pets will scale with all stats except mastery
Q. What are you planning for Doomguard and Infernal? That Demonology talent is quite... strange.
A. Look now, they are now… Diamonds. I mean, guardians. The Doomguard does strong ranged damage and the Infernal is good for area-of-effect damage. They're shared cooldowns, so it's your choice which you want to use. 10-minute cooldown. No more stones or figurines!
clarification on guardian pets.
shared 10min cooldown. different niches.
(immediate thoughts - 12 seconds from 2 talent points is not enough on a 10minute timer).
Post by
Acabar
Q. What are you planning for Doomguard and Infernal? That Demonology talent is quite... strange.
A. Look now, they are now… Diamonds. I mean, guardians. The Doomguard does strong ranged damage and the Infernal is good for area-of-effect damage. They're shared cooldowns, so it's your choice which you want to use. 10-minute cooldown. No more stones or figurines!
clarification on guardian pets.
shared 10min cooldown. different niches.
(immediate thoughts - 12 seconds from 2 talent points is not enough on a 10minute timer).
We know Demon Bolt (and other nukes) will have a chance to reduce the CD of Meta. Perhaps Demon Bolt will have something similar built it? Either that or they'll either rework/remove that talent, I'd wager.
Post by
asakawa
i REALLY hoped there'd be a questions about demon bolt in this twitter chat.
i know it's in that talent description but i'm really starting to think it's gone.
demo has a curse, a bane and two dots to maintain.
it has meta, demonic empowerment, soul burn and guardian pet cooldowns to watch.
it also has
5
nukes! (SB, incinerate, soul fire, demon bolt, fel flame)
demon bolt is the weakest link there and i think if they were going to be using it they would have eased off a talent like molten core to remove incinerate from the mix or something.
Post by
221517
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ccbutch
i have not understood these talent trees that they give us they make us take stuff that isn't even close to useful i do know they will be changing stuff but its kinda hard to figure out how the spec will be good for pve when they make us take stuff for pvp
I thought that was the goal of the new talent trees. It let's you pick up all the mandatory talents but give you room to pick up some random talents as well. While I know they are going to change things around a bunch I think the destruction tree right now is looks the most like how they want the new trees to look. You only spend 31 points in a given tree and some of those really depend on the individual playstyle. When your grinding or casual pvping would shadowburn or aftermath be better for you the way you like to play?
Personally I like the style they're moving to, unlike the mandatory 71 points that need to be spent in certain places now to maximize damage, we'll have 31 mandatory points for damage and 10 to spend on whatever we want.
Post by
USMCDiablo
Not really. There's always gonna be a certain set of talents that provide maximum DPS...I'd rather see utility talents like Supression, Replenishment, Shadowfury, etc etc like current Destro options be possible for every tree and good enough that you aren't destroying your DPS.
As for the last few flavor points, currently there is little options in the trees, at least from what I saw. I don't like how some trees have 5 talent points in the first tier, 5 in the second, 5 in the third...If you're gonna do that why have talents at all? Just start me at Tier 4 and don't give me talent points until whatever level that is.
Post by
LookOut
it also has
5
nukes! (SB, incinerate, soul fire, demon bolt, fel flame)
Iirc they said they wanted every spec to have their own nuke (SB for affli, DemoBolt for demo, and Incinerate for destro), so demo will most likely no longer use Sbolt in Cata. Imo they'll replace everything that Sbolt does by DemoBolt (for demo only ofc).
For the rest:
i REALLY hoped there'd be a questions about demon bolt in this twitter chat.
Post by
Zhenbuyaoshi
First off, I really hope they implement BoH today in the beta testing realms so we can finally get some real dialog going about that spell instead of just a buncha speculations, since we don't have anything concrete to go on.
Secondly, I've played around with the Affliction and the Destruction trees over and over, and after you go over them a few times, only a few of builds seem to really make sense-at least to me. But, even then, they sorta barely make sense to me, because they seemingly are forcing you to take PvP-like talents for PvE and I just don't understand that... unless... unless, they are trying to make it so that our PvE builds can double as PvP/PvE. Which would solve many a player's issue with having to have one PvE spec and then choose between having another PvE spec or then taking up a PvP spec in their second talent set.
I'm sort of having an idea on the fly here, so you'll have to bare with me if my logic is terribly flawed. But, this would make sense why no matter what I try in my Destruction tree or in the Affliction tree, I end up forced to put points into clearly PvP talents, and it would also explain why some of the builds I've been able to come up with are completely viable in PvE and PvP.
So, I put this question out to you guys: Do you think that Blizzard is trying to make it so that all player can have two specs that are both viable in PvE and PvP? What I'm trying to say is--for two examples--a Warlock could dual spec Affliction and Destruction, and get both the PvE and the PvP experience from both Specs without losing out on anything, or a Shaman could dual spec as Restoration and Enhancement, and get to be both a PvE/PvP melee DPS, and PvE/PvP healer. I'll have to check out the Shaman talent trees first, but this was just a thought that came to me on the fly, and I wonder what you all think... ("four specs disguised two?")
EDIT: I don't want to suggest that this is the ONLY reason, nor that one could not get a bit more of a PvE or a bit more of a PvP build out of their Latter Points, or Leftover Points, their "LPs", if you will. All I've seen is that there are builds that are totally PvE/PvP viable, where you lose out on little to nothing in exchange for making yourself totally PvE/PvP viable.
Post by
asakawa
Q. Is your goal to not having to use a talent specialization solely for PvP? If so, please elaborate on how you plan to accomplish that?
A. This is almost impossible to “fix.” With the nature of talents min/max will always be possible. That said, we’re trying to move away from having purely PvP or purely PvE talents as much as possible, which will make the pure PvP specializations less painful to play in PvE and vice versa.
A #2. We are removing many of the PvP talents, as well as trying to make some of the PvP talents a little more useful for PvE (for example, a talent that currently procs on taking critical damage could instead proc on taking any damage, including AoE damage, as well). While we recognize that very competitive players might still want unique talent builds for PvP vs. PvE, the hope is that more players might be able to use the same specialization more often for multiple aspects of the game.
so, yes i think it is their goal to make PvE builds pick up some talents that don't directly increase DPS but may have occasional uses in PvE. they can only do this by giving us choices between two utility talents since a choice between one DPS and one utility is never a choice.
at the minute the problem is that we're not really having to
choose
many talents since we just need to pick up pretty much every talent just so we can progress through the tree. it is this that i think we will mostly see change in the next beta patch. i think they'll give more options but we shouldn't expect there to be strong DPS/PvE choices all the way through.
i hope that it will feel more more interesting in future iterations but i think we should start learning to embrace the idea that some of the talents we choose will not be DPS increasing things.
Post by
520284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ccbutch
The problem is that this is still beta. While I enjoy going over every new talent build and trying to figure out the best set-up I also realize that things can and will change alot. Specific builds can't really be evaluated right now as they are constantly changing.
new talents
Not only are the still moving things around but they are still combining talents (shadow and Flame tier 1 destruction) but they are still adding new and unique talents link Jinx on the second tier of affliction. I can see Jinx being extremely helpful for bosses with tons of little adds.
While we can like or dislike the new direction and those on beta can and should give thought-out opinions on the way the talents are coming along many things are still going to change, and most will be for the better.
As for everlasting affliction I think that's just a typo from taking a 5-point talent down to 3 points. At least I hope so.
Post by
Rekijan
As an pve/pvp affliction lover I like these new changes. Bit minor still but a nice step forward. Jinx is a nice pve boon on fights with more then one target and in pvp it helps nicely against the classes we have difficulties with.
There still isn't much choice in the builds but at least you don't have to take as many 'useless' talents to fill up to haunt.
Never had much love for destro, doesn't feel lock to me. Interested in what the demo locks think of these changes tough.
Post by
asakawa
The problem is that this is still beta. While I enjoy going over every new talent build and trying to figure out the best set-up I also realize that things can and will change alot.
this!
(sorry it's mmo-champion, Wowhead doesn't have the new talents yet).
sure it does. during the ptr/beta phase for big patches and expansions wowhead launches a whole other side to its site. at the top left you'll see a link "cataclysm". click that at any time and you'll be taken to the equivalent page you're currently on but containing the info for the expansion, not the live game.
so you can click the button and browse the site as normal but seeing the expansion files or you can browse to the page you want to see (like the warlock talent calculator) and
then
click it to see that specific page.
Post by
tugipus
The problem is that this is still beta. While I enjoy going over every new talent build and trying to figure out the best set-up I also realize that things can and will change alot.
I surely hope it will change a lot. The new talent trees offer so little room for variation it is ridiculous.
You can chose which of the 5 first and second tier talents in the affliction tree you dont want to max out by one point...fantastic.
One good use for the ranged hellfire would be destealthing rogues as it now significantly outranges sap.
Post by
Zhenbuyaoshi
Can I just say, thank you for Shadow and Flame, because Improved Shadow Bolt was getting on my nerves, and now I can put my points in there and not feel like they are wasted.
Post by
Zhenbuyaoshi
Can I also say that I cannot believe that they are nerfing Nether Protection, again! As if it wasn't nerfed enough already? My personal thoughts on the talent was they should have done what they did with the Soul Leech, and just made it a straight, "You get hit by a spell and you get +X/3% spell protection," for one point, "+X/2% spell protection" for two points, and "+X% spell protection," for 3 points. But, they actually left it at a chance, and not even a good chance, at getting--nerfed--X% spell protection, for all of the same 8 seconds? Come on... I could barely stomach taking that talent before, now, forget it.
Maybe some of you all can school me on how powerful it is, and what I'm not seeing, or something, because right now, I'm seeing 3 points for not very much.
Post by
Rekijan
To be honest nether protection has never sounded very powerful to me. I never read any qq about it so I have to agree I don't see how it can be justified except maybe that with health pools getting bigger that the current % is too big, but even that doesn't sound very feasible.
Post by
ccbutch
If i remember correctly nether protection had a chance to make you immune to a school of spells when hit. Compared to it's current state it has become quite weak. It used to be a much better pvp talent and possibly a good pve talent filler. I remember our tanking warlock had it for Keal'thas, he went immune and Capernian proceeded to nuke the rest of the ranged. Good times.
Post by
Micaiah
No more Spellstone / Firestone makes me sad =\
Post by
asakawa
why is that though?
we can assume that warlocks are balanced on live WITH spell/fire stones.
if we're balanced in cataclysm without then it just means that you've got something less that you could forget every hour.
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