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Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
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Post by
356172
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Post by
asakawa
my thoughts from earlier in the thread:
k, so i don't get cremation.
an AoE DoT refreshes a single target DoT.
if immolate didn't have a direct damage portion then i would say "great, we can refresh a DoT and get some extra damage for free!" but immolate has it's own DD portion and the new fel flame.
this is the model for UA plus fel flame and works really well for that, however fel flame also refreshes immolate so we'll have to work out which is the better spell for the refresh, immo or FF (i think we can assume fel flame but we'll see).
so demo has this other EXTRA thing that can refresh immo. it's unlikely to do more on a single target than FF though possibly more than immo's DD.
three things do the same job. one requires points in a tree that doesn't have spare?
so if you're DPSing a boss and a bunch of adds come in you can use HoG and refresh your boss immo while doing some AoE.
cool... but too situational to be useful. i'm definitely not spending points in a bloated tree for that.
are there any proper AoE uses for this talent? not really. if you're AoEing then you're not going to be putting immo on everything first... unless that is what they're intending this talent to lead people to do...
my guess is this will change. it could even get removed completely since the tree has plenty going on (it's the only tree that will lead you to put more than 31points in it).
Post by
356172
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Post by
asakawa
given that fel flame is an instant cast its coefficient will be incredibly low (expect 20%) so that level of tooltip damage seems super-low.
it needs to be less DPET than our true nukes but something that's worth casting while moving (that's the niche they said they were aiming for). as such i'd expect it to be something like arcane barrage which sits at ~1000 at 80 (and, curiously, has a 71% coeff O.o)
i dunno, you may be right and i hope you're right but still, two points needs to be a clear DPS increase, especially in a tree as bloated as demo where there are definite options which do increase DPS.
i still think that it's a placeholder. someone had an idea about refreshing immolate (since they removed the super long duration from molten core) and they had a cool name for it so they put it in.
we'll have to wait and see ^_^
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
well, one point would probably be enough but that's the other weird thing about the whole idea. it's a DoT that refreshes a DoT. so you get the DD from HoG then two seconds later the first tick. this means you need to make sure you plan ahead a bit with the immo refresh and if you only take one point you'll need to make sure you have a few potential ticks to be sure.
also, hellfire is channellable while moving but you still have to channel it so it will never be a single target option. it's very cool but it's difficult to see how it is a DPS increase in itself tbh though that will depend on content of course
Post by
USMCDiablo
I'm more curious about those extra points. In current talent trees we get talents that decrease the CD of filler spells and double crit. In the current cata trees there seems to be essential points, but there aren't enough talent points to get them all. Unless I'm getting too many useless skills in the Demo tree which could be the problem, you can't get all the CD reduction talents and improved shadow bolt...Of course, demo could just spam incinerate for filler and skip out on improved shadow bolt entirely, but...
Post by
DraconisAerius
Right now I can see 2 uses (an please feel free to add more if you think I missed any) for a mobile Hellfire. Farming and kiting adds to the tank. Farming should be obvious, doing dmg while on the move makes it faster. Kiting adds again kinda obvious, doing dmg while taking the adds to the tank keeps those adds from aggroing to the healer.
Just my 2 cents for now. Really tired so most likely missed some uses. But frankly I can't see me not taking it. There's just too much fun to be had.
Post by
asakawa
by farming, though, you mean levelling and who's kiting adds as a warlock?
a great talent for levelling is cool but is it enough? if blizz do want demo to use hellfire as its main AoE then this talent should probably buff its output.
Post by
LookOut
I haven't seen anything to indicate that immo aura is going away specifically so I went with what I had. But either way, I think you missed the point of my post, which was that we will be
trailing fire behind us wherever we go
.
might do but until we get confirmation either way it is a fun image of fiery awesomness ^_^
Well ofc it's an extremely fun image :D I just think immo aura + hellfire might be a bit too OP in pvp, so that's why I think they'll replace immo aura ...
But fine, I'll let you guys dream on ^_^
Myself included, I guess :p
Post by
152018
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Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
LookOut
I think that Demo needs a talent to reduce pushback... I mean, if you're grinding with Demo to get some awesome cloth, and you use Immolate on five mobs... I mean, your Felguard can only handle one target at a time, and if you're wanting to channel Hellfire, then you're screwed.
Perhaps the ability to run around with Hellfire cancels the channeling time? Then that would make more sense. But then how does a Demonology lock get back his health?
And is this build going to focus on you using Infernals and Doomguards more often? It looks like it, and they appear to be pushing you to use Bane of Doom more often... Perhaps they want us to have the Infernals' passive Immolation Aura, and use the Doomguards' Rain of Fire?
Who says you NEED to use hellfire while leveling? I usually don't aoe grind with my lock (except in my pvp affli spec).
Your FG should be able to handle 2 mobs with Cleave
Hellfire will stop killing the caster, so what do you mean by health back?
(maybe you already know this one) Infernals and Doomguards will become guardians, i.e. they won't dismiss the FG.
I think all specs will use Doomguard/Infernal more often because of that. Demo will get 12 secs more if they spec it. Just how useful that'll be, I dunno.
That last point reminds me: does anyone have a duration on Infernals and Doomguards yet?
Edit: just looked it up, infernal seems like it'll last a minute. So 12 secs is not too shabby.
Can't see a cd though
Post by
152018
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Post by
LookOut
I meant from you being attacked by five mobs. How would you get health back from that?
Good point :)
And I know you don't need it for leveling. But hell, if you're sick of picking one mob at a time for something you wanna drop, you turn to AoE, right?
*thinks back to those moments when he accidentily pulled too many mobs while leveling and then popped meta + immo aura*
/happysigh
Post by
asakawa
I think that Demo needs a talent to reduce pushback...
primary skills (formerly masteries)
Primary Skill Description
Summon Felguard Summons a Felguard under the command of the Warlock.
Demonology Warlock Increases spell hit,
reduces spell pushback
.
Post by
152018
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
by farming, though, you mean levelling and who's kiting adds as a warlock?
a great talent for levelling is cool but is it enough? if blizz do want demo to use hellfire as its main AoE then this talent should probably buff its output.
Uh no by farming I mean going to some place and killing everything you can find for the loot. Usually with a specific item in mind. For example 2 weeks ago I spent the whole week farming vanilla instances for greens and blues to make leveling my enchanting (which I'm pleased to say I have maxxed now). Having the ability to keep on the move and still cause damage would definitely have been welcome in that situation. As it was it was like "run in, stop. channel/cast something, stop. loot. rinse n repeat." This got old fast. The best parts were where I could pop meta, turn immo aura on and just run for it.
Kiting adds... the number of times a quick hellfire or shadowfury has saved the healer from death in dungeons such as H HoR is probably surprising. I know I have done it more than twice and I know a friend of mine has at least once. So tha ability to move whilst doing this tactic could be useful, such as dragging the mobs into your tanks DnD or Concecration or whatever it is that lot do.
And have they not buffed hellfire's potential dps by making its range bigger in that talent?
Post by
asakawa
maybe i'm just out of touch with how others play this game but does anyone use a specific spec to farm stuff?
levelling i can see as an endeavour worth a spec but, like, farming cloth for tailoring? any spec can do that once you actually get to max level surely.
(as i say, i may be out of touch. i can't think of anything worse than "farming" in the true sense of the word)
i'm trying to think of really good reasons, in a tree with too many options, to take something like that and your ideas really aren't very strong. surely you see that.
as for the extra range buffing its output, that might have been true if we couldn't move but since we can we can adjust our position to get the most out of it. there will undoubtedly be situations where extra range on an AoE is a good thing but, taking a look at current content (with all it's AoE-centric content which won't be there in cataclysm) how many real fights (that drop purples) would this help?
sure it'd be nice on trash like the stuff around LadyDW but trash is trash.
as i say, i'm wholly unconvinced by the current cremation and, to a lesser extent, improved hellfire. i smell a change coming for both but we'll see.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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