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31-point talent tree N:th version.
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Post by
109094
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Post by
skribs
0/31/2+8
includes all of the cat DPS talents. Keep in mind that 4 points (Thick Hide and Survival Instincts) are tank filler that I think helps, 3 points (Brutal Impact and LotP) are raid utility that may or may not be needed if someone else has interrupts or the aura covered, 3 talents (Feral Charge and Feral Swiftness) devoted to movement, and 4 talents (Imp FC and Predatory Strikes) devoted to increasing burst after movement.
This leaves only 19 of your 41 talent points actually buffing your DPS on a standstill Patchwerk-type fight (Ferocity, Fury Swipes, King of the Jungle, Endless Carnage, Rend and Tear, Nom Nom Nom, Berserk, and Blessing of the Grove). I'm going to assume LotP and the movement-based talents are mandatory as well (interrupts not as much because so many classes can handle that, usually the tank), which would then bump it up to 27 mandatory talents out of 41 talent points, giving you options for the other 14. In other words, 65.8% of the tree is "mandatory," The rest is filler/optional.
Furor is appealing after a brez or tranquility, but not mandatory if everything is going smooth. If Furor is grabbed, perseverance could make it easier on the healers. Infected Wounds could help if your tank doesn't have it, or you could grab the bear talents and be a viable off-tank. Maybe you want to be like I did, and grab Brutal Impact. Maybe you don't need it.
Compared to now, where
0/59/12
is almost purely spent buffing your DPS, and if you could spare another few points to get Master Shapeshifter you'd get more. (Keep in mind I don't remember the exact cookie cutter for top cat DPS, the point is that you have virtually no talents now to "choose.") So yes, the trees are smaller, but since you're getting less talents that are a DPS increase, and more that are a utility increase, you're getting more options.
Blizzard has said they want our choice not be between damage and utility, but between utility and utility. For example, on my DK I had to choose between talenting for 15% movement speed or 2% crit. In Cata, the goal is that you may be choosing between 15% movement speed and Anti-Magic Shell, or between damage reduction on spells (not required of a DPS, but makes it easier for the healer) and infected wounds (would help the tank, but the tank likely has a similar debuff). So instead of 58/11+2 type builds, where there's maybe 3 points of "filler" (and the filler/optional are all just the least powerful DPS-increasing talents) you would have an option for 31/5/5 or 34/0/7, where 10 points of the main tree are filler.
Like I said earlier - this makes the decision significantly easier for PvE (pick 20 or so talents right and you'll do max DPS), but much harder for PvP (because now EVERY talent is a PvP talent).
Post by
109094
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Post by
422325
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Post by
ignis86
see this only makes me feel MORE forced into stuff and no fun decisions... i HATE that theyre hacking them down that da
m
n far.
if anything could make me not keep playing... it might be this. we will have to see...
i didnt buy bc and wrath (and might not cata) to revert back to feeling like im in vanilla when it comes to talent trees... i personally liked seeing trees and knowing someone had no idea what they were doing just by looking at their trees.
Post by
pezz
I don't see the incentive for Fury of Stormrage. At all. Every other healer tree has talents that push them towards DPS abilities, yes, but they offer something by way of healing. The end goal of casting DPS spells is to make your healing better or more efficient or give you more mana or
something
. I mean, I
can
throw out a free Wrath, but I don't see why, in the context of my ability to heal, I would
want
to. I guess I might proc Nature's Grace, but if I really want to cast healing spells faster, I'd stop blowing GCDs on Wrath casts.
I guess it's either a leveling talent, or they haven't finished integrating it yet.
Post by
5200
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Post by
skribs
The spec you linked had 33 points spent
I know. That's why it's 0/31/2+8 and not another number.
Id be willing to bet Primal Fury will continue to add combo points for cats and that its just an oversight (it is the alpha build afterall), thus making it mandatory
It's also possible that they decided to remove it because A) with haste affecting energy regen, we'll be building CPs faster, and B) with Primal Fury the way it is, most people stop at 4 CPs anyway. B may or may not be a bad thing, but it is counter intuitive IMO for it to be better to use less "stacks.
Primal Madness, if it actually adds an additional 20 energy, is mandatory.
My guess is that it works just like any other power gain (e.g. DMC:G Int proc), in that you'll go from 100/100 to 100/120.
The choice in utility you have is survival talents (not mandatory to put numbers on the meters, and you could likely get through the content without them, but it would make your healer's lives easier if you don't simply increase their overhealing - e.g. if they heal for 11k and you reduce a 10k AoE to 9.4k, you're increasing their overhealing on each AoE by 600), utility (such as Infected Wounds, in case the tank didn't want it), or other things. You could of course get a bear/cat hybrid spec, maybe missing Infected Wounds (assuming the warrior/pally/DK will have the debuff up) or another ability.
Post by
pelf
Crikey that is a horrible horrible feral tree.
I'm going to quote this and then not read anything else posted in this thread thus far. The best I could say is WTF and then I decided to look again next revision.
Post by
404185
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Post by
curlymon
Crikey that is a horrible horrible feral tree.
I'm going to quote this and then not read anything else posted in this thread thus far. The best I could say is WTF and then I decided to look again next revision.
Honestly, I think the best we can take out of this is that they removed 5/5 talents and the tree is indeed 31 points deep.
Absolutely nothing else worth mentioning.
Post by
615276
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Post by
curlymon
If this is anything like what they are actually considering, they should just give you only 1 talant point for the entire game at level 10 with the following four choices: 1) Cat, 2) Bear, 3) Moonkin, 4) Resto.
I understand the direction of simplifying the talant tree's, but doing it to this degree has made even having the tree completely pointless. I also fully understands that this is not final and is subject to change (thank god), but this is easily the most asinine, sub-par, and heartbreaking failure of a new idea I've ever seen come from Blizzard. Also Blizzard, putting garbage idea's like this for people to preview doesn't exactally fill them with much confidence that the rest of Cata expansion will be any different. /superfail
The intention, if they manage to pull it off, actually has an incredible amount of promise.
Remove the fluff.
Keep the strong talents. (this makes each choice meaningful)
Add enough Variation that play style affects the talent build more then role.
Post by
404185
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Post by
Falkor
If this is anything like what they are actually considering, they should just give you only 1 talant point for the entire game at level 10 with the following four choices: 1) Cat, 2) Bear, 3) Moonkin, 4) Resto.
I understand the direction of simplifying the talant tree's, but doing it to this degree has made even having the tree completely pointless. I also fully understands that this is not final and is subject to change (thank god), but this is easily the most asinine, sub-par, and heartbreaking failure of a new idea I've ever seen come from Blizzard. Also Blizzard, putting garbage idea's like this for people to preview doesn't exactally fill them with much confidence that the rest of Cata expansion will be any different. /superfail
post on official forums, pls. /agree
Post by
615276
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404185
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465276
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579877
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615276
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