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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
Rankkor
Beyond the Dark Portal still occurred after Nobundo had started teaching the Draenei shamanism Rank; so unless through pure luck all the Draenei settlements escaped any and all damage from the explosion of Draenor..... they were probably helping to protect their lands with the help of the Elements to keep the cities from being destroyed.
still, all his actions have been exclusive to the draenei, while Thrall's actions have helped save more than just orcs, or the horde. Nobundo was on the defensive against the chaos, Thrall is on the offensive, he doesn't just settles with "if they atack us we will defend ourselves" he's more of the mind-set of "if there's legion we go there and kill them, we don't wait them to make the first move".
heck he felt what deathwing was doing and departed imidietly, he didn't waited for the cataclysm to hit orgrimmar and then use his shamanism to protect the city, as nobundo would do, he traveled directly at the root of the problem.
Heh, I still find that slightly amusing; Thrall just happens to be the first real shaman in 30 odd years to emerge from the orcs, and he just happens to be part of the one uncorrupted clan...
just a coincidence, if Thrall had been the son of a Blackrock general, and still did what he did in lord of the clans, warcraft 3 and all his other heroics, he would still be the most powerful shamans.
cuz the elements reward the people that do more than just sit on their butts all day long.
I just don't like that out of all the shamans; from the tauren, the wildhammer dwarves, the trolls, and the draenei, and the other orcs, he's the special child, the 'big one'
and why not? what's so wrong of an orc out of all races to be THE bigest shaman in the world?
again, he earned his status not for being an orc, or for being a frostwolf orc, or for having blue eyes, he earned his status because of his actions. as simple as that.
and if we're talking about "special childs" Med'an is that someone, not thrall.
everyone else gets out of the way and lets Med'an unleash his pure awesomeness on the enemy, Thrall doesn't.
he fights, and empowers you to fight at his side (as he did in hyjal, and on the undercity, and on the lost isles, ect ect) he refused to be a part of the new council of tirisfal presicely because that would imply him doing absolutely nothing but channel his strenght to med'an and then sit on his ass and wait for the special child to save the day.
that really isn't "Thrallish" at all, he would rather work, and also encourage others to work with him and empower them, rather than soak all the glory for himself (cough-tiron-cough)
let's be honest, if Thrall dies, the Elements are not going to lament over it, as death is part of the over all circle.
yhea, I never said otherwise (at least not recently, a long time ago I did said that the elements would rage over thrall's death but that's not true, as the elements only wish for balance on the world, wich is also another reason they like Thrall so much, because he has helped people before regardless of wheter they are alliance or horde, unlike nobundo who has only helped draenei and only draenei alone)
Post by
Adamsm
still, all his actions have been exclusive to the draenei, while Thrall's actions have helped save more than just orcs, or the horde.Considering what the orcs who were still on Draenor were like..... can't blame Nobundo and the Draenei for doing so, and the Elements did 'go' to them after all.
and why not? what's so wrong of an orc out of all races to be THE bigest shaman in the world?
again, he earned his status not for being an orc, or for being a frostwolf orc, or for having blue eyes, he earned his status because of his actions. as simple as that.Nothing.. just that orcs aren't the only shamans, and are technically immigrants to Azeroth, who were fine with razing huge sections of the worlds(Stormwind and the High Elf lands), and yet, this creature from another world ends up being above the Tauren, Trolls and Wildhammers, who have had a connection to the planet for far longer then the orcs?
he refused to be a part of the new council of tirisfal presicely because that would imply him doing absolutely nothing but channel his strenght to med'an and then sit on his ass and wait for the special child to save the day.Uh.. no; he refused because he had to prepare the Horde for war against the Lich King, and didn't want to leave them without their Warchief, and offered up Rehgar(an advisor by that point) to take his place.
Post by
Rankkor
Considering what the orcs who were still on Draenor were like..... can't blame Nobundo and the Draenei for doing so, and the Elements did 'go' to them after all.
still, ok on draenor they had to keep a low profile to avoid being erradicated, but how about azeroth? they arrived and then all he does is sit on his butt and train new shamans and that's about it?
don't get me wrong, passing the torch is important, or else no newer shamans will remain to keep the world safe, but doing nothing BUT passing the torch isn't exactly the best way to earn favor with the elements.
also.... considering how the humans on azeroth treated the orcs after they lost the war, I woudn't had blamed Thrall either for haboring a grudge against them or at least refuse to aid them, and yet he has aided them in the past.
Nothing.. just that orcs aren't the only shamans, and are technically immigrants to Azeroth, who were fine with razing huge sections of the worlds(Stormwind and the High Elf lands), and yet, this creature from another world ends up being above the Tauren, Trolls and Wildhammers, who have had a connection to the planet for
far longer then the orcs
?
/facepalm
again with the time issue.
jeez bro'
IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LONG U'VE MET THE ELEMENTS!, as long as you actually work they favor you.
taurens, wildhammers and trolls have had a conection with the world far longer than the orcs, and yet they havent' been pro-active, haven't step up and do something important or monumental.
also how can you bring the orcs razing huge sections of the world? they were under the demonic influence of the demon blood, the elements knew that once they were purged of said taint they had the potential to be much better, and they were right about that, but someone ANYONE had to be willing to free the orcs from that status and nobody wanted to untill Thrall came along.
Drek'thar for all his wisdom and reobtaining his conection with the elements was happy enough to keep his people safe and hidden, and keep a low profile (sounds familiar?) and this is why the elements didn't chose him to give more power.
Thrall wound't settle with just keep a low profile and hide after he escape, he wanted his people to be free, and more than just wanting to, he worked to free them, and for this the elements blessed him, he could had settled fine and dandy after reaching kalimdor, but nope, he went to hyjal to protect the world tree, he could had sent an army to retake the UC, but nope he went there himself.
see where I'm getting? people who are pro-active.
taurens may have been friends with the elements for 50.000 billion years and it still doesn't matter if when the world needs them, they shy away and don't do their part to save it.
Thrall did, and this (THIS) is why he is the most powerfull.
it's irrelevant that he's been a shaman for less than 10 years, it's irrelevant that he's form a race that ravaged 1/4 of the world. it's irrelevant that 50 years ago his race wasn't even in this world. it's irrelevant if the rest of his kin was the puppets of the greatest enemies of life in the univerce
alll of that is COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY irrelevant, as long as thrall works, he is the big cheese as far as shamanism goes.
Post by
Adamsm
still, ok on draenor they had to keep a low profile to avoid being erradicated, but how about azeroth? they arrived and then all he does is sit on his butt and train new shamans and that's about it?
don't get me wrong, passing the torch is important, or else no newer shamans will remain to keep the world safe, but doing nothing BUT passing the torch isn't exactly the best way to earn favor with the elements.
also.... considering how the humans on azeroth treated the orcs after they lost the war, I woudn't had blamed Thrall either for haboring a grudge against them or at least refuse to aid them, and yet he has aided them in the past.That's more the writers.... and that's what I'm complaining about heh. And the writers are what I'm complaining about as well in regards to Thrall; they've set him up as the most powerful shaman, on Azeroth and beyond.... which means apparently, no other race has ever done anything good(and considering War of the Three Hammers, the Tauren Centaur War, and the multiple things with the Trolls, that's a bad thing to do). And yes, what the orcs did would have at least some connection to the Elements... seeing as the Draenor ones turned their backs on the entire race at one point....
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
That's more the writers.... and that's what I'm complaining about heh. And the writers are what I'm complaining about as well in regards to Thrall; they've set him up as the most powerful shaman, on Azeroth and beyond
and this is good, it re-enforces the idea that the elements don't give a frikking crap what race you are, even if you are the son of a long line of mighty wildhammer shamans, who for generations have worked closely with the elements since the dawn of time, if you don't bust your ass to earn the favor of the elements, u're gonna be a weakling shaman forever, and no amount of years, or training will change that.
because the core in th power of a shaman is your relation with the elements wich is translated as "your willingness to give as much as you take" and this has no bearing or relation to who your parents are, or what your race is, or how long have you met them. There are no "freeloaders" among the shamans.
the other races with shamanistic roots have done their part, but mostly to protect their own, and BTW if I remember correctly, Darkspear Trolls are as new to shamanism as the orcs. They come from a voodoo society and it was Thrall and the orcs with the taurens who started them in the path of shamansim (Thrall was the one who began the work, as he met the trolls long before meeting the taurens)
so, add that to Thrall's list of achievements xD
Post by
Monday
Trolls are as new to shamanism as the orcs. They come from a voodoo society and it was Thrall and the orcs with the taurens who started them in the path of shamansim (Thrall was the one who began the work, as he met the trolls long before meeting the taurens)
so, add that to Thrall's list of achievements xD
What about non-Darkspear trolls? I'm pretty sure Thrall didn't go and teach the
Skull
splitters
Post by
Rankkor
:P no, I meant darkspear only.
Thrall never really met (or at least dealt) with the other troll tribes like the amani drakkari or gurubashi.
but the darkspears were all mostly voodoo and canibalistic, ever since joining the horde the shamanistic influence of the orcs and taurens kinda rubbed off on them.
Post by
Monday
:P no, I meant darkspear only.
Thrall never really met (or at least dealt) with the other troll tribes like the amani drakkari or gurubashi.
but the darkspears were all mostly voodoo and canibalistic, ever since joining the horde the shamanistic influence of the orcs and taurens kinda rubbed off on them.
So in your post you meant Darkspear trolls only then, as there are other troll tribes that practiced Shamansim before Thrall was even born.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Are these mobs defined as shamans in the lore? 'cause that's more important than what they are called, I hear.I've heard lots of
claims
that the trolls learned shamanism from the orcs, but no official material seems to directly support the idea.
Now, there
is
direct support for the orcs having learned huntarding from the trolls.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Only for the Darkspear though; the other tribes, have a version of Shamanism connected to their Voodoo belief, just as their Voodoo Priest are the priest class.
Post by
Rankkor
yhea :P I should had been more explicit in my post, only the darkspears learned shamanism from the orcs, wich caused their cultural shift from the voodoo (stay away from the voodoo mon) and to partially leave canibalism, and instead be shamans.
the troll headhunters on the other hand taught the orcs about the crafts of being a hunter (though I suspect the tauren hunters had something to do as well, as their whole society is based arround "the great hunt")
Post by
Rankkor
to make another point on how race has nothing to do with who is the strongest, take mages for example.
Rhonin is the most powerful mage alive (I still think it's jaina but meh) and he's a human, wich is funny because humans have practiced magic for less than a thousand years if I remember correctly.
while the night elves, and high elves (elves in general) have been mages for FAR FAR LONGER, several millenia ago.
it was the elves who taught humans how to wield magic in the first place, and yet humans are the most powerfull mages in the world (antonidas+jaina+rhonin, all have been at one point been acknoledged as the most powerfull mage alive, and all are humans)
so, if it's ok for you that Rhonin is the most powerful mage even when he's no elf, what is so wrong with Thrall being the most powerfull shaman alive?
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
while the night elves, and high elves (elves in general) have been mages for FAR FAR LONGER, several millenia ago.Rank, Night Elves haven't been magi for almost 10 thousand years; that's why they kicked out those who would be the High Elves out of their lands. Even the Highborne who were hiding in Dire Maul aren't 'powerful' seeing as they've been there, feeding off the demon and letting a steadily insane prince rule them. As for Rhonin... he's a sue, plain and simple; it sucks that he's the most powerful magi out there, when there are still Blood Elves who didn't go over to Kael and of course Jaina as well.
Thrall being the most powerful, out of all of them, just seems like a little of a shoehorn is all.
Only for the Darkspear though; the other tribes, have a version of Shamanism connected to their Voodoo belief, just as their Voodoo Priest are the priest class.
"Their version of Shamanism" doesn't mean actual shamanism. It's Loa worship that, in game, disguises itself as shamanism.
Unless you're telling me elements are disguising themselves as Loa.
Why not? The Elemental creatures of Outland call themselves something different from Lords like the ones for Azeroth do.
Post by
46491
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Why not? The Elemental creatures of Outland call themselves something different from Lords like the ones for Azeroth do.
'cause it'd be damn strange that the Darkspears have no elemental Loa where everyone else does. I know they "stopped" worshipping Bwonsamedi, which is why they have to ask for his forgiveness and aid.
I could totally see a corrupted Elemental Lord manipulating a tribe of trolls though. That'd be fun.
From the Shaman page, under the Troll heading:
Troll shamans
The trolls have always had deep connections to the spirits, though never called it shamanism. The way of the witch doctor, which might after time lead up to the respected title, Shadow Hunter, was a common way of life to many trolls. But not all trolls could comprehend the power. A witch doctor would not only have to be able to strike lightning into their foes, with the power granted by the Loa God Shango, controller of storms, or aid allies by mending their wounds, with the might of the Loa God Lokou, master of healing. They would also have to be clever, cunning and rutheless in order to save their tribe, or stop anyone who came in their tribes way.
When merging with the Horde, they taught their new allies their "twist" on shamanism, and tauren and orcs taught them theirs.
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