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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
Rankkor
well I don't get it tauren, now that the details of Garrosh's apointment are clear, there's no more lingering doubts that he is a TEMPORAL warchief, so I still am clueless as to what the fuss is about?
u don't like him? don't sweat it, he's only holding the fort for a while.
think of this like back on Power Rangers (the ORIGINAL season, not today's crap) when tommy (green ranger) lost his powers, thus being unable to be in the team, BIG letdown for the many many many (did I said many?) fans he had.
but he returned, in a true blaze of glory.
ditto for thrall here, he felt
a disturbance in the force
the elements asking for his help, and since the elements have helped thrall A LOT in the past 2 decades, the least he could do is offer to the elements whatever help he can.
thus he leaves garrosh in charge ONLY UNTIL HE RETURNS. (note his words "In my absence you will lead the horde" if this was permanent he would had said "from this day foward, you will lead the horde" or something similar, but he said "in my absence" wich means once his abscence is over, he fully intend to reclaim his title of warchief)
so, once more, I still am completely 100% clueless as to why are you freaking out so much about this. Calm down, bet you 50 to 1 that thrall gets back on the big chair either by the end of the expantion, or by the start of the next one. (hell, we may even be lucky and have him back during the middle of this expantion)
and I do believe garrosh is turning into something else.
let me put this in perspective: He acts defiant to Thrall because Thrall's passiveness is something he doesn't recognize, prior to the first or second wars, orcs weren't passive creatures, they were people of action, when something had to be done, they wasted no words about it and got it done and over with. This was because back on draenor there werent many intelligent species to have any form of diplomacy, the top 2 civilizations were orcs and draenei, with the sporadical ogres who are dumber than rocks and nemesis of the orcs, and the arrakoa hidden in skettis, and that's it.
but on azeroth, there's A TON of intelligent species that share the land, and thus orcs must weight the consequences of their actions to not just themselves but to the other civilizations that inhabit the lands.
Thrall shows this passiveness wich garrosh mistakes as weakness or cowardice, wich is why he acts like such a prick in most of WOTLK, however on CATA, thrall is no longer passive, no longer willing to sit on his ass and let problems fix themselves up, he's willing to roll up the sleeves and get to work, wich has impressed garrosh as THAT is what he recognizes as true strenght, the capacity to get to work.
gameplay-wise garrosh never left the safety of Warsong Hold, but lorewise he was the leader of the warsong expedition, and as such, field tactician for all the generals, warlords and high warlords dispatched to the 4 corners of northrend, even if WE didnt' saw him fight, that doesn't mean he didn't fought.
after all, WE never saw jaina kicking ass back when she was building theramore, or when she fought the twilight hammer and the old god's servants or when she rebuilt the council of tirisfal, but she did, even if WE didn't saw that. there's a lot of stuff that happens "lore-wise" in the background that we don't get to see, so we really shound't judge NPC's as "doing nothing" when lore-wise they could be doing 50 times more than we would ever do as players.
he's not a badly written character with a double personality.
on one hand he has thrall, a figure who was passive but now has FINNALY decided to get into action, (something he respects) and on the other hand has Vol'jin a figure who (in his eyes, wich are biased by his definition of usefullness) for the entire war against the lich king and the scourge did squat and simply retook his lands (a major feat, but in garrosh's eyes a minor one)
he lashes out at vol'jin simply because he deemed him unworthy (a rather major character flaw, and one that adds realism to garrosh, as nobody likes "mister perfect" cough-rhonin-cough)
now the disclaimer: just because I like how garrosh is changing into something (slightly) more positive DOES NOT mean in any way WHATSOEVER that I want him to remain as warchief, AT ALL.
I still hope and wait for Thrall's glorious return, but untill that day comes, I'll defend the horde from ALL threats, be them foreing......... or domestical.......... (/salutes)
Second Disclaimer: main reason why I like that garrosh is changing into something more positive, is because the horde allready has more than enough black sheep, from Magatha, Putress, Sylvannas, Garrosh, a large chunk of the forsakens ect. And they all meet the same end, First they embarrass the hell out of us making us look bad, and then they die, dragging our name down with them on the way.
with garrosh there's a chance for FINNALY things to go the other way arround. for the black sheep to clean up his act, stop acting like an idiot and trowing mud to our name, and actually redeeming our image in the foes of those that dare to critizise us.
(and yes I'm 100% aware that this is a game xD I talk like this because I'm a fan of the lore, that being said, as attached as I am to warcraft's lore, it's quite easy for me to de-attach myself from it if it ever comes to the point I don't like it anymore)
sorry for the wall-o-text U_U
Post by
Adamsm
Heh nice post Rank... but your not going to get through to Tauren; he observes the lore through his own narrow view and anything and everything else that is outside of said view is wrong, not right, untrue, can't be true etc etc, to his mind and brain.
Post by
Rankkor
Woawoawoa... WOA. Back. It. All. Up.
Did you just argue that Thrall is the Green Power Ranger
?
I think Im in love.
I sure did my friend :P I sure did.
the analogy fits (to a point) since both are GREATLY LOVED by a MAJOR segment of the fanbase (and I'm talking both alliance and horde players, Thrall is one of very few characters loved by both factions) and for a while he has to step down (diferent reasosn but still) wich causes his many fans to be disapointed.
but just as the green ranger returned, so will thrall, and when he does, it's gonna be awesome (plus the color also fits :D since thrall is green like the green ranger ^^)
now if only metzen made thrall dualwield the doomhammer with a dagger-flute that can summon a metalic dragon......... =/
Post by
382219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
As it happens I respect Rank a hell of a lot, although be demeanor is a lot calmer then mine in this debate, I still feel its worth answering.
Heres the thing. So much goes that from what Thrall says he will return to the horde, that is what we have to go on for him returning. However, its not put forward in what capacity he will return.
Consider what we've seen so far, and other factors the games thrown in. Thrall has had to accept what the earthern ring told him in giving up his mantle, and hell, even his armor, as warchief to embrace the way of the shaman fully. He pretty much had to remove the armor he's held as a sacred honor to him to achieve this. He of course would do, as there as no other choice in the matter, but it just seems to fuel the idea that in order to save the world, the mantle of warchief has to be put aside, for that, we don't know how long for.
Now, consider thralls place in the story, and the now growing adulation towards Garrosh. As much as you say Thrall will return to lead again, there are as many debaters, bother her and on other forums, who think Garrosh will remain warchief. And in truth it isn't beyond blizzards capacity to do so. Whats to stop them making a plot at the end of cata where Thrall comes back, and actully says along the lines 'I was right about you Garrosh, stay warchief'?
On the subject of Garrosh, I dunno how it happened, but well you've started to find a growing respect for Garrosh, it seems you overlooked just how eractic his character is. One minute he's an emo, next he;s a ragaholic, then he's humbled, then he's a ragaholci again throwing his commanders of cliffs and nearly screwing up an aerial flight to twilight highlands. The reason I don't find any kind of character development in Garrosh is because there honestly isn't any to speak of, nothing deep, he's just a character he changes his persona to suit whatever the writers want at that moment in the story.
I agree, Thrall has shown a passiveness, and maybe its this really annoying thing with garrosh fans how they see Thrall wanting to prevent war, and then see Garrosh wanting to create war, and class Garrosh as stronger then Thrall. That just honestly pisses me off how little people look at the story and how it takes a strong will to actully make the orcs not be just another group of lord of the rings write offs. And, because of the extreme difference in Thralls actions compared to Garrosh's bloodthursty ones, people are now all a sudden calling Thrall the soft case, why? because he doesn't scream like a lunatic and rage about wanting to conquer the world? I thought the horde was meant to be better then that now.
Now, what I can agree on, is in having a complete asshat like Garrosh as a leader, it gives cause to actully have more faith in the indevigual character in the story as opposed to just the bulk of it. I like how on Jessy cox latest video he showed it was half and half, many orcs who didn't want to go to war and believed in Thralls message, and other orcs who wanted war, and followed Garrosh. This at least proved the point the horde, even the orcs as a whole, is split in its beliefs.
Maybe I could live with the idea of Garrosh developing into something, but so far, all I see is a character who gets changed every chapter into whatever suits that current story. Dare I say, its like an orc version of Rhonin? I've yet to see anything that shows depth to Garrosh in all honesty.
I know its just a case of waiting to see, but well people keep posting how they think Garrosh is the best thing to happen to the horde, I'll keep responding otherwise.
Post by
382219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I know its just a case of waiting to see, but well people keep posting how they think Garrosh is the best thing to happen to the horde, I'll keep responding otherwise.You mean complaining, %^&*!ing, moaning, and doing things that probably got you banned from the official forums,which is why your back here.
Post by
382219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I know its just a case of waiting to see, but well people keep posting how they think Garrosh is the best thing to happen to the horde, I'll keep responding otherwise.You mean complaining, %^&*!ing, moaning, and doing things that probably got you banned from the official forums,which is why your back here.
No I just like giving you vains.
Seriously, its not just me now but other people your doing this whole forum officer thing to. I think its you who needs to take a break.
Post by
taurenmoo812
True. We aren't sure Thrall's coming back. I hope he isn't. I hope he's saving the world more, and Garrosh is making us kill more stuff
The fact Thrall said to them in the throne room and to vol'jin he would return wouldn't go down without something to it. Of course nothings written yet, but I'll still counter anyone that thinks otherwise.
Post by
Adamsm
Seriously, its not just me now but other people your doing this whole forum officer thing to. I think its you who needs to take a break.
Why, because I don't like trolls like you? At least I'm not telling anyone who will listen(and those who don't) that Garrosh is going to turn into a Fel Orc, which was your Chicken Little scream for the last 11 months. Beyond that, hurts don't it? That I guessed why you came back to Wowhead, after telling us all we were a bunch of Blizzard sheeple, and you'd find better people over in the official forums, and you weren't coming back here. Guess the mods over there didn't like the stuff you were spouting, and banned your fanboi butt eh?
The fact Thrall said to them in the throne room and to vol'jin he would return wouldn't go down without something to it. Of course nothings written yet, but I'll still counter anyone that thinks otherwise.
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously on Wowhead anymore......
Post by
Tritoch
Personally, I think we'll see Garrosh mature and grow into his role as Warchief of the Horde over the course of the expansion. Certainly not right away, especially not with Variann throwing all kinds of tantrums, but it seems to me that in many ways Garrosh is still looking for his place in the world. Thrall plucked him out of Nagrand, told him all this stuff about his father and what kind of position he holds in and to the Horde, then sends him off to Northrend to fight some more.
But he was in a position of responsibility there as well, and it shows. Thrall obviously saw enough in that performance to pass on the title, and one thing we know for sure is that Thrall isn't stupid enough to hand leadership of the Horde to some warmongering idiot.
I'm sure someone said it earlier in the thread, but the Horde is still young, still fragmented in many ways. Garrosh is much more penetrating and decisive than Thrall, and he won't abide any corruption. I can certainly see him shaping the Horde into a truly strong organization, and the Horde teaching him in return about responsibility and leadership. I like Garrosh, and always have, and I hope we'll see him and the Horde come out of this stronger than before.
Post by
632573
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tritoch
Was Garrosh responsible for the Wrathgate, by the by?
Post by
Adamsm
Was Garrosh responsible for the Wrathgate, by the by?
No, that was Sylvanas due to her creating it, and Thrall in inadvertently for not keeping watch on them undead evil beasties.
Post by
GVHB
Was Garrosh responsible for the Wrathgate, by the by?
It had been debate a lot, some people think that Thrall is responsible because the majority of the development of the blight happened during Vanilla at Lordaeron, when he was the Warchief. Others think Garrosh is responsible because the blight was finished at Northrend by the Hand of Vengeance (who were under his command as Overlord of the Warsong Offensive and leader of the Horde expedition at Northrend).
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Garenzo
Cairne disagreed with Garrosh and both dueled it to sort the mess out. It ended with Cairne's death and although it was certainly not Garrosh's direct fault, this certainly managed to drive an abyss between the Tauren and the Durotar Orcs.
Beta quests make it obvious this isn't the case. They only hold a grudge against the Grimtotem for it and Baine gets his revenge on their general for the Mulgore attacks.
Vol'jin also disagreed with Garrosh, so much that the troll threatened his Warchief of murder. The Darkspear now live far from Orgrimmar and Vol'jin kicked from the throne room.
Most of them still live in Orgrimmar, they've also got their own "mini-town" in it now. (tauren and goblins as well)
Others (me) also think that you can't really blame someone for Angrathar, just for having dangerous weapons near a Nathrezim.
Agreed. I don't think it's a conspiracy at all... Nathrezim are some of, if not the most manipulative bastards around and besides, Varimathras is
always on the winning side
.
Post by
Tritoch
I more meant, was it Garrosh's idea to have Saurfang the Younger attack the Wrathgate?
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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