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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
And before you says "But Thrall wouldn't....", ten gold had it been a commander under Thrall who bombed a city, killing innocents and non-combatants, same thing that happened with Garrosh would happen with him: The commander would be killed.
He'd probably not have dropped him down a cliff though.
Well more then likely...but he still would have been killed. I think the toss off the cliff thing is yet another stupid 300 reference.../sigh
Post by
taurenmoo812
Bull %^&*; simple as that. That's only your view on it, tainted by your intense hatred of Garrosh. Yes, bad &*!@ is happening, but Garrosh is not just sitting there and laughing about it(like the next big Saturday morning villain is); if someone does something that is dishonourable, he's taking them to task, and killing them if needed. And before you says "But Thrall wouldn't....", ten gold had it been a commander under Thrall who bombed a city, killing innocents and non-combatants, same thing that happened with Garrosh would happen with him: The commander would be killed. And before you go "Oh that's not true", Thrall learned from both Doomhammer and Grom; and Grom threatened to kill his men if they brought down fire form the humans by killing children.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Thats what I gotta say to that.
Cycle of Hatred, the orc Brux who lead an army of orcs and trolls to attack northwatch, and what did Thrall do to stop that conflict. He smashed that orcs head in before everyone and called his people off.
But Unlike Garrosh, Thrall preserved his peoples ways to stop them going to war, well Garrosh wants to conquer the dam world. Don't talk to me like you think your opinion of the law better then anyone elses.
Post by
Adamsm
He smashed that orcs head in before everyone and called his people off.Same thing Grom or Doomhammer would have done as well....so, any leader of the Horde in other words.
Thrall preserved his peoples ways to stop them going to warAnd if he had no choice, he will fight....oh wait, isn't that the position of the rest of the Horde, other then Garrosh and Sylvanas?
well Garrosh wants to conquer the dam world.Because that's what anyone fighting a war wants.
Don't talk to me like you think your opinion of the law better then anyone elses.Irony, thy name is Taurenmoo; isn't that your stance on everything? If it's about Thrall, the rest of peons and morons because apparently, you know best. If it's about the Horde, we all suck, and your the king of information....even though you get #$%^ wrong all the time. Get off your pedestal, your %^&* stinks just as much as mine does.
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
well Garrosh wants to conquer the dam world.
I'll just grab this since the rest is based of what if Garrosh is there.
Conquering the world there have been some people who have attempted, and although they haven't achieved it have been very successful. People like say:
-Napoleon Bonaparte
-Alexander the Great
having an ambitious goal like that isn't a bad thing
You know I'm 100% certain if someone mentioned hitler on these threads there be someone (or Adams) right away saying 'omg don't make real life comparions there baaad!'
Seriously, Garrosh is out to conquer the world the same way the old horde did, and how did that do it? They destroyed anything in there wake. Look as Ashenvale forest for starters, that isn't just collecting lumber anymore, its him dominating the whole area.
you know the real reason doomhammer failed so misrably, right at the horde battle against the alliance at blackrock mountain. It was because at the moment he killed Lothar, he declaired 'your world will belong to us!'. At that moment, the story shifted to the alliance were the good guys, the horde was bad, and as such, the good guy won over them. When Doomhammer went from being a savior of his people to a world conquering tyrent, he lost. Ner'zul also suffered the same fate, when he stopped leading his people, and all his intentions turned to his own survival instead of his people, he ultimately failed.
Post by
Adamsm
you know the real reason doomhammer failed so misrably, right at the horde battle against the alliance at blackrock mountain. It was because at the moment he killed Lothar, he declaired 'your world will belong to us!'. At that moment, the story shifted to the alliance were the good guys, the horde was bad, and as such, the good guy won over them. When Doomhammer went from being a savior of his people to a world conquering tyrent, he lost. Ner'zul also suffered the same fate, when he stopped leading his people, and all his intentions turned to his own survival instead of his people, he ultimately failed.Except as far as he knew, he had no world to go home to; Doomhammer was fighting for his people, not for himself. Hell, he died for his people, to a sneak attack from behind, and still killed his killer. But I guess, because he had to fight, that makes him bad eh Tauren? Ner'zhul ran in fear yes, and it came back to haunt him; and turned him into the pathetic villain we just finished an expansion with.
Anyways: Noticed something when I went to watch the scene for the pre-patch stuff: Both Garrosh and Thrall had the Hidden Enemies quest on them....maybe the Hero of the Mag'har questline isn't going to disappear after all; could end up doing it with the chosen of the Warchief and Drek'thar, like how that orc in Shadowprey replaced Rexxar for the Onyxia quest line...well, before it was removed.
Post by
Rankkor
Anyways: Noticed something when I went to watch the scene for the pre-patch stuff: Both Garrosh and Thrall had the Hidden Enemies quest on them....maybe the Hero of the Mag'har questline isn't going to disappear after all; could end up doing it with the chosen of the Warchief and Drek'thar, like how that orc in Shadowprey replaced Rexxar for the Onyxia quest line...well, before it was removed.
yheaaa.......... not gonna happen.
sorry bro' just did that in my lvl 60 druid, no can do, in hellfire the introduction quest to the mag'har has you using the spirit of the wolves to talk to the mag'har, at this point you're sent to thrallmar, and then naz'grel sends you to orgrimmar with a letter to thrall, that quest "the messenger" is gone.
if that one is gone, then the last step of "hero of the mag'har" is gone too.
basically all quests that involve thrall in any way, are gone.
also, regardless of the character development garrosh is recieving (wich I aprove, I don't like having a black sheep leading my horde) I still prefer thrall's leadership any day of the week.
I mean, what you YOU have next to you as your commanding officer?
him?
or
him?
this is why I love
saurfang
so much, he has the traits of both Thrall and garrosh, while out of battle he's cool, wise, calmed, and a BRILLIANT strategist and diplomat, while in a battle, he's a complete killing machine, as fiersome powerfull and unstoppable as warriors get, so strong in battle that even the alliance soldiers admire him. He's as wise and serene as thrall, yet as fiersome and brutal as garrosh.
the fact that his voice sounds like optimus prime definitly helps xD
how many alliance heroes are that cool to be admired by horde grunts?
just watch this well known quote from him, the type of quotes that can truly send goosebumps on someone's back (unlike the watered down "WE HAZ THE WORLD" speech that garrosh gives in the twilight highlands)
"
I am Saurfang. Brother of Broxigar. You know me to be the Supreme Commander of the Might of Kalimdor. An orc - a true orc warrior - wishes for one thing: To die in the glory of battle against a hated enemy. Some of you have fought in battles. Peace has been with us for many years. Many years we sat idle but many years we battled. In those years - where strife the land and Legion and Scourge sacked our homes, killed our families - these insects dwelled beneath us. Beneath our homes - waiting. Waiting to crush the life from our little ones. To slay all in their path. This they do for their god. And for our gods? We defend. We stand. We show that as one. United. We destroy. Their god will fall.
To die today, on this field of battle, is to die an orcish death. To die today is to die for our little ones. Our old ones. Our… loved ones. Would any of you deny yourselves such a death? Such an honor
?
"
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, could have hoped heh.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I believe that Thrall will return. But I just don't know in what capacity he will.
Maybe he will be warchief again. Maybe he will have a joined leadership alongside with Garrosh to bring the horde together and stronger for it. I sure as hell don't think he'll be a lesser figure to Garrosh after he gave garrosh warchief, that would be an insult to his character.
Personally, I would sooner see Garrosh pushed off his seat, and letting the horde return to how they were under Thralls rule. And even if Thrall wasn't warchief, someone like Saurfang would be a bigger step to that. I also respected Saurfang, and fact is, he does work on both ends, one of wisdom and strength.
But still, I'll believe in what Thrall told vol'jin. remember, he told vol'jin he would return, even after he made the choice to follow the ways of the shaman to heal the world. I havbe faith in that.
Post by
drame
I believe that Thrall will return. But I just don't know in what capacity he will.
Maybe he will be warchief again. Maybe he will have a joined leadership alongside with Garrosh to bring the horde together and stronger for it. I sure as hell don't think he'll be a lesser figure to Garrosh after he gave garrosh warchief, that would be an insult to his character.
Personally, I would sooner see Garrosh pushed off his seat, and letting the horde return to how they were under Thralls rule. And even if Thrall wasn't warchief, someone like Saurfang would be a bigger step to that. I also respected Saurfang, and fact is, he does work on both ends, one of wisdom and strength.
But still, I'll believe in what Thrall told vol'jin. remember, he told vol'jin he would return, even after he made the choice to follow the ways of the shaman to heal the world. I havbe faith in that.
and he also told Vol'jin to be patient, even against the current evidences, like your raging over Garrosh, Thrall belives that in time the leadership will mature Garrosh and in the process he will of course do stupid stuff, like any leader ever have.
But i can see i've fallen a bit behind so ill quickly reply to what you wrote to me last time :)
I think i have formulated myself badly, as i often do, but what i meant is that orcs STILL has the same honor system as before thrall and anything and they still got it, of course ITS WAR so their brutal, like humans, like night elves, like gnomes, dwarves, blood elves, tauren, trolls and so on! When its war time the honor system is pushed a bit back, no matter how heroic the race, their not returning to the old horde, they might love the battle and blood but they always have, they got the viking look at things, dying in battle is good etc. So to put it short:
no their NOT returning to the old hordes ways, Garrosh is NOT making the horde go back to that, Thrall is NOT god,
Thrall does NOT make up for the horde, he restarted the old girl but by no means IS he the horde, nor is Garrosh alone enough to turn the horde old, back then Gul'dan had alot of help, Garrosh doesn't have those options, nor would he if he had.
p.s Rankorr did you just jugde by the looks? ;) Ain't that something we have been taught not to do?
While yes i would prefer saurfang for several reasons, i dont mind Garrosh, + story wise if Garrosh doesn't lead when his time comes (and if we follow the whole orcish ways he will due to his father being Thralls best pal ever) then he would suck even worse. He needs experience.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I believe that Thrall will return. But I just don't know in what capacity he will.
Maybe he will be warchief again. Maybe he will have a joined leadership alongside with Garrosh to bring the horde together and stronger for it. I sure as hell don't think he'll be a lesser figure to Garrosh after he gave garrosh warchief, that would be an insult to his character.
Personally, I would sooner see Garrosh pushed off his seat, and letting the horde return to how they were under Thralls rule. And even if Thrall wasn't warchief, someone like Saurfang would be a bigger step to that. I also respected Saurfang, and fact is, he does work on both ends, one of wisdom and strength.
But still, I'll believe in what Thrall told vol'jin. remember, he told vol'jin he would return, even after he made the choice to follow the ways of the shaman to heal the world. I havbe faith in that.
and he also told Vol'jin to be patient, even against the current evidences, like your raging over Garrosh, Thrall belives that in time the leadership will mature Garrosh and in the process he will of course do stupid stuff, like any leader ever have.
But i can see i've fallen a bit behind so ill quickly reply to what you wrote to me last time :)
I think i have formulated myself badly, as i often do, but what i meant is that orcs STILL has the same honor system as before thrall and anything and they still got it, of course ITS WAR so their brutal, like humans, like night elves, like gnomes, dwarves, blood elves, tauren, trolls and so on! When its war time the honor system is pushed a bit back, no matter how heroic the race, their not returning to the old horde, they might love the battle and blood but they always have, they got the viking look at things, dying in battle is good etc. So to put it short:
no their NOT returning to the old hordes ways, Garrosh is NOT making the horde go back to that, Thrall is NOT god,
Thrall does NOT make up for the horde, he restarted the old girl but by no means IS he the horde, nor is Garrosh alone enough to turn the horde old, back then Gul'dan had alot of help, Garrosh doesn't have those options, nor would he if he had.
p.s Rankorr did you just jugde by the looks? ;) Ain't that something we have been taught not to do?
While yes i would prefer saurfang for several reasons, i dont mind Garrosh, + story wise if Garrosh doesn't lead when his time comes (and if we follow the whole orcish ways he will due to his father being Thralls best pal ever) then he would suck even worse. He needs experience.
However you look at it, Garrosh is a hellscream. Vol'jin called it right. Even with the experience of war and lose, Grom was still known for being the raging orc that killed anyone he came up against. Thrall tested Grom when he was alive, knowing the warsongs want for carnage, and even then, he killed countless night elves and there god (given, self defense), but regardless, Grom was savage in just about everything he did, and Garrosh is set to be just like his father.
I draw to the point made at the end of beyond the dark portal, when the portal was destroyed, and Grom made it that the orcs would seek bloody revenge on the humans, even when there kind had lost, he still wanted war and nothing else, and even Rexxar spat back in Groms face at how Groms actions disgusted him.
Garrosh might have a warrior spirit, but if he is anything like his father, the hordes set for going down a very dark and bloody path.
Post by
Monday
(given, self defense)
...not really. Sure the Night Elves attacked first, but he was invading their land and desecrating their practices. It's like Goblins building a chemical plant in the Valley of Wisdom and freaking out when they get attacked by Shamans.
Post by
Adamsm
Even with the experience of war and lose, Grom was still known for being the raging orc that killed anyone he came up against.....Um, what about the humans he didn't slaughter and kill during Lord of the Clans? Or is that a blind spot..... And yes, Grom was a monster on the battlefield...so were Brox and Saurfang.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Also, I still can't get over the "Doomhammer was a good guy, and Blackhand was a @#$%^&bag." retcon. Maybe I'm still stuck in my teenage years where all we were told in the WC2 manual was that Doomhammer had killed Blackhand for the title of Warchief.Well, he did technically heh; of course he just happened to take the title while shattering the puppet of the Shadow council lol.
Post by
GVHB
Doomhammer was better than Blackhand as he wasn't a puppet of a Demon-worshiper organization who wanted to transform the rest of their race in mindless killing machine for their demonic masters.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GVHB
Heh, the original Doomhammer had a blade on top of it and lacked the Frostwolf symbol. I could totally see Doomhammer beheading Blackhand with a hammer like that.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Even with the experience of war and lose, Grom was still known for being the raging orc that killed anyone he came up against.....Um, what about the humans he didn't slaughter and kill during Lord of the Clans? Or is that a blind spot..... And yes, Grom was a monster on the battlefield...so were Brox and Saurfang.
That in my mind felt like a retcon by christie, however it was a child he didn't kill well his clan was in hiding. And you can be sure he did kill when freeing the orcs from there imprisonment, but that was only due to Thralls intervention.
Point being, Grom might have had honor for his own kind, but he was still a savage and killer, his body count ranking up with draenei, humans and other races alike. To the orcs that is what they counted as a hero, but it was still the reason the orcs would never put aside there want for war and carnage, because of orcs like Groms example.
The reason I admired the orcs in wc3 and wow until cata, was because they stopped being those stupid savages like in the past (except the warsong clan) and I actully believed you could be an orc and a hero at the same time, instead of just some lame generic bad guy orc.
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