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10.2.7
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10.2.6
Beta
Ok starting cata builds now
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Post by
kemppy
ok been thinking that builds now will be useless come cata so i will be starting this thread to get a jump on possible builds in cata
the first build is an unholy dps build (unholy cos i like it alot)
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jbIZZfGcuIob0Ru:
ok your turn pro's con's and builds that you can think of be it unholy pve/pvp, frost pve/pvp or blood pve/pvp (i know that blood is new tank spec, but i have seen tanks pvp)
Post by
Zokudu
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jcIRdhbfkGoZbhc:
My take on Blood Tanking.
Tier 1 Butcherys Worthless so Bladed Armor and Blade Barrier are obvious choices.
Tier 2 Scarlet fever is probably going to be required and BCB scales well with 2h 1 Point in SoB for later in the tree.
Tier 3 Bone Shield, Toughness and Abominations Might are all very good skipped the strangulate reduction I wish I could fit it though.
Tier 4 Sanguine Fortitude gives us a quality cooldown and Imp blood Presence is what makes us able to tank. Blood parasites seems underwhelming at 10% chance for 2 points.
Tier 5 WotN is part of what made Blood shine in WotLK and thats not changing. Rune Tap required to get WotN, Vamp Blood our second cooldown.
Tier 6 Crimson Scourge looks required for AoE tanking in any shape or form also in getting our AP debuff up, Imp Death Strike Great buff to one of our main strikes.
Tier 7 DRW Good Parry cooldown and threat increase.
First Tier of Frost is meh and nothing compelling in Tier 2 to get.
Epidemic and Viscious Strikes. They're better then any other choices though the 2 points in Vicious Strikes could be moved to Virulence its probably going to be personal choice. Morbidity is why were subspec Unholy so give it the 3 points and call it a day.
@ Your build a few things:
Why did you take resilient Infection. That seems like a hardcore PvP talent to me unless bosses dispel now which would probably only be 1 or 2 and be situational. Also Virulence is looking meh in the Beta because of the new Rune System. I would put 2 points in to move down a tier but thats about it.
Also Unholy Blight is underwhelming its been relegated to a PvP talent and doesn't look like thats changing a whole lot. You can get more DPS elsewhere I feel. You also skipped Magic Suppression which if I'm reading the tooltip correctly enables AMS to give you RP thats not baseline anymore. Seems to me like thats Unholys RP solution when paired with Dirge to compete with Frosts huge RP generation.
Also Blizzard wants Unholy DKs to DPS in unholy so I would assume Imp Unholy Presence would be a large DPS talent.
I am having issues because Tier 3 of Unholy has great talents and I end up 1 talent point short of what I want I came up with this:
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jbGZZrhcuIcbMRu:
but I'm not wholly happy with it. Perhaps dropping 1 point in Magic Supression to fill out BCB? I think it depends on how important the AMS RP gain is to Unholy.
Post by
Victarious
Zokudu, I was wondering if you could clarify what you meant about Virulence being worth less due to the new rune system? I'm not seeing how one would affect the other, but then again I'm not in the beta.
I also don't think Magic Suppression is going to be the big deal you think it is. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard (which is all chatter, nothing official or anything) there aren't a lot of free GCDs to dump RP, thanks to the combo of Sudden Doom and Runic Empowerment. I don't think RP will be too big of an issue, and I certainly can't see skipping Unholy Blight -- which I'm not sure what you're reading, but +10% to Death Coil damage is not just for PVP -- and certainly not maxing out Blood-Caked Blade, which is a big DPS increase now and should still be in the future, I would think.
I was thinking to do the same as kemppy, but move the two from Resillient Infection to IUP. I'm not sure if that will be best, but it's what makes most sense to me.
Also, I was not aware that they wanted Unholy to stay in Unholy presence now. I must have missed that; I like that a lot thematically.
Post by
495174
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kemppy
the build i took was basicly just the unholy build now, yes it is smaller, but if you look the important stuff is there
Post by
woohaa
I also don't think Magic Suppression is going to be the big deal you think it is. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard (which is all chatter, nothing official or anything) there aren't a lot of free GCDs to dump RP, thanks to the combo of Sudden Doom and Runic Empowerment. I don't think RP will be too big of an issue, and I certainly can't see skipping Unholy Blight -- which I'm not sure what you're reading, but +10% to Death Coil damage is not just for PVP -- and certainly not maxing out Blood-Caked Blade, which is a big DPS increase now and should still be in the future, I would think.
Your correct about GCD issues. the only spec not GCD capped is blood. atm frost and unholy both tend to cap out on RP at some point or another not by choice but because there's just not enough time to dump it.
Unholy Blight is still working the same was it does on live. there's no wasted dmg and you can't clip the dot. it works similarly to ignite where if you apply UB again before the dot wears off the dmg will stack until the duration from the first UB drops off.
The question about UB atm is whether it still holds it's per talent point weight. now that the maximum talent points is only 31 and the ranks can only go to 3, it's not worth as much as it used to be. Unfortunately there's no answer to this yet as mechanics and gameplay are still being redesigned before they start tweaking numbers. I'm pretty certain they'll adjust the dmg to either DC or UB to make sure it's still worth the point.
as far as unholy using unholy presence...well that's their design goal but it's not working that way in beta yet. hopefully they'll fix the RP issues soon.
Post by
Victarious
Interesting. I'm wondering what people would take if not UB, especially if they're both GCD and RP capped, because then Magic Suppression does lose its value. Improved Icy Touch? That's the only talent I can see increasing DPS that you can't get in
8/0/33
unless you're dual wielding.
EDIT: Of course these trees could all be gone tomorrow so who's to say. I actually think the Unholy tree is pretty nice, though. I'm thinking to switch over from Frost DPS in the xpac.
Post by
kemppy
i think unholy will be the best, but idk about blood tank, i say this cos, what about duel weild tanks, will that effect them
Post by
Zokudu
Zokudu, I was wondering if you could clarify what you meant about Virulence being worth less due to the new rune system? I'm not seeing how one would affect the other, but then again I'm not in the beta.
I also don't think Magic Suppression is going to be the big deal you think it is. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard (which is all chatter, nothing official or anything) there aren't a lot of free GCDs to dump RP, thanks to the combo of Sudden Doom and Runic Empowerment. I don't think RP will be too big of an issue, and I certainly can't see skipping Unholy Blight -- which I'm not sure what you're reading, but +10% to Death Coil damage is not just for PVP -- and certainly not maxing out Blood-Caked Blade, which is a big DPS increase now and should still be in the future, I would think.
I was thinking to do the same as kemppy, but move the two from Resillient Infection to IUP. I'm not sure if that will be best, but it's what makes most sense to me.
Also, I was not aware that they wanted Unholy to stay in Unholy presence now. I must have missed that; I like that a lot thematically.
Well the way I was thinking about Virulence is that IT is Unholys only major strike on spell hit and with increased disease length we should be ITing less right? But if Magic Supression is as underwhealming as you say it is then I understand moving the points out of that and into Unholy Blight and Virulence. I had mentioned about BCB in my post. I understand where your comming from. I think it will all depend on how much RP is required for Unholy is future changes. If magic supression is worthless then Virulence and Unholy Blight would be best as you stated.
For Blood Tanking the Build you linked is pretty much correct except that no, Virulence is not worthless, on the contrary its better than Epidemic that just grants 1DS every 90 seconds. Also, Bloodworms is a definite yes. You can drop points from Aboms or SF to get them if someone else is supplying that Buff.
I don't think I said Virulence was worthless but at the end of the day the first tier in Unholy are meh as far as talents go. Vicious strikes is probably the best talent overall with 6% crit chance and Virulence and Epidemic have never been terribly high in DPS per point.
Do you really think BP are that powerful. 2 points for a 10% chance just seems a bit low. And suggesting to take points out of SF seems like a no no to me because it reduces the potency of one of our major tanking cooldowns. Considering how central Cooldowns were in Wrath and are in general to DK tanking I wouldn't sacrifice the 30% damage reduction. So it comes down to 2% Strength vs 10% chance on the parasites. I don't know I would personally take the 2% strength and the possibility of 10% ap depending on raid makeup but that me unless the BP are very strong.
Post by
Victarious
Well the way I was thinking about Virulence is that IT is Unholys only major strike on spell hit and with increased disease length we should be ITing less right?
I think Death Coil is also governed by spell hit, but I don't play Unholy so I never really looked into it....it should be, though, by all rights. With the hit value of Virulence doubling and Sudden Doom moving to Unholy, I would think Virulence's value shoots way up.
Post by
Zokudu
Well if magic suppression blows then it doesnt matter because youd have points where Virulence is the ONLY dps increase available.
Post by
kemppy
Well the way I was thinking about Virulence is that IT is Unholys only major strike on spell hit and with increased disease length we should be ITing less right?
I think Death Coil is also governed by spell hit, but I don't play Unholy so I never really looked into it....it should be, though, by all rights. With the hit value of Virulence doubling and Sudden Doom moving to Unholy, I would think Virulence's value shoots way up.
Death Coil is still at normal hit
Post by
woohaa
General
Death Runes are now functioning as intended.
Raise Dead now functions as intended.
Runic Empowerment no longer bugs out the rune display.
Unholy
Corrupting Strikes – Now increases the damage of Festering Strike by 10/20/30%, in addition to the previous increase of the same potency for Plague Strike and Scourge Strike.
Dirge – Now increases the runic power generated from Festering Strike by 5/10, in addition to the previous increase of the same potency for Plague Strike and Scourge Strike.
couple changes from the latest beta build.
(FeS = Festering strikes btw...i swear i didn't make it up)
So here's my WTF moment of the day. In the previous build FeS was added to reaping. Unfortunately deathrunes weren't really working properly till now so you couldn't test how the rotations worked and how much dmg you could put out hitting SS 6 times. So in this last build they fix the deathrunes but at the same time they make FeS hit harder then 2xSS >_> soooo....atm deathrunes are still being spent on FeS which imo isn't all that bad. 6sec increased disease duration per strike is great. However, like live reaping is a total waste *sigh*. hopefully they tweak the numbers slightly to make SS better...either that or make the shadow portion able to crit again =)
edit: just wondering...should i make a thread for all the cata dk changes?
Post by
Victarious
Yeah that'd be a good thread, people would probably still make other posts, though. Could always request it to be stickied.
I can't believe they will let FeS stay that strong. If they made Reaping baseline, they have to intend for it to be useful.
Post by
Zokudu
The more I read about Unholy the more I'm intrigued. I rolled a DK to tank and started DW Frost tank - DW Frost DPS and swapped to DW Frost tank - Blood tank dual spec so I've never really tried unholy but the Cata changes are really interesting to me. I'm excited to free up my dual spec again :D
Also @Victarious I also didn't mention FeS with the reduced value of Virulence but I'd imagine that would play a part as well.
Post by
Victarious
That's true. I'm not sure I believe kemppy about Death Coil's hit chance (no offense Kemppy), though. The Wowhead comments say it functions off of spell hit, and that would make more sense. I'll run some tests tonight and report back. We'll get to the bottom of this!
But I'm with you, Zok, I think Unholy seems very intriguing in the expansion. It seems like it will be somewhat like Blood DPS is now, with its "main" strike being a single rune and the "off" strike building Death runes to support it (assuming SSx2 does end up being superious to FeS). I also like the disease mechanic of FeS a ton.
Post by
Zokudu
Quote off EJ for you Victarious
The spell hit cap is 445 hit rating (17%). Assuming Virulence and Misery this number decreases to 289 hit rating (11%). With a Draenei, it goes to 262 hit rating (10%). The only dps skills that are affected by this are Death Coil, Icy Touch, Death and Decay, Pestilence and Blood Boil.
Post by
385472
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Victarious
ZOK! Much love. Thanks for that. So yeah, Virulence is looking pretty important. Does anyone know if they've changed hit cap around in the beta? I remember hearing at one point that they wanted to make it harder to hit the cap. In any case, we'll definitely want the extra 6%.
Post by
Zokudu
I believe the way it has been said to work is we will require more hit rating as raid tiers increase. We will still be able to cap at each tier but the amount of hit rating we use will scale similar to other stats like STR and crit and such.
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