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Slam/Bloodsurge vs. Heroic Strike/Incite
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Post by
ParadOxyMoron
This post starts with a story to help shed light on my situation. Sorry.
Last night, I ran a 25m VoA. I noticed there was a similarly geared Fury warrior. Almost identical gear. He out dpsed me. By 3k. I was very curious about this, I knew what I was doing was right, Raging Blows > Blood Thirst > Slam (bloodsurge proc)> Heroic Strike (over 80 rage). I compared our recount data, and I noticed that while I had over 100 slams, he had two, and many, many more heroic strikes than me. At this point I noticed that my average Heroic Strike HIT did more damage than my Slam CRIT. My average Slam crit was around 7k, while my average Heroic Strike crit was around 17k. That's almost two and a half times as much. I respecced, dropping Bloodsurge, and instead took 3 points of Incite (also cut a point off of War Academy and opted out of Blitz). On the Heroic Dummy, my DPS has increased by 1.7k. That seems unreal, and it leads me to believe something may be wrong.
All that being said I have three questions:
1. Is Heroic Strike (or Slam) horrifically bugged to be giving this high (or low) amounts of damage?
2. Has anyone else experienced this?
3. Is it just a gear issue? (Armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Galakrond&cn=Akavar
)
TL;DR: For whatever reason, choosing Heroic Strike over a Bloodsurge'd Slam seems to increase my DPS substantially, is something wrong? Does this happen to you too?
Post by
591116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ParadOxyMoron
Yeah. I'm starting to think that Heroic Strike is bugged. Crits are doing around 4.25x how much damage the tooltip says. Lol.
Post by
Sakkura
arms warriors are constantly using their global cooldown with MS, overpower, and heroic strikes (and refreshing rend).
HS isn't actually on the GCD. But still, slam should be better than HS or it will never be used (and then what's the point of having talents for it).
Post by
ParadOxyMoron
I'm well aware that it isn't on the GCD. Either way, I've done extensive testing, and it's doing FAR more damage than slam. I guess a question I forgot to ask is if we should just cut slam out (for now) and spend the 10 more rage on the HS (that does far more damage).
Post by
591116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ParadOxyMoron
also HS damage is currently way better than slam damage, so it might be viable to consider prioritizing HS over slam.
Apparently, even tankspot has noticed.
Post by
septimx
yes, slam is currently weaker...
i just hit slam only when there is nothing to hit...
more on Heroic strike now....
and currently recount will show Heroic Strike or Bloodthirst to by my #2 or 3 damage dealer...
HIT 27% or 26.5% and above for a fury warrior is highly recommended...
for me this works... for another maybe... so many variables and gear combo and reforging to choose from...
will play with incite 3/3, as the description favors Heroic Strike better than war academy...
Post by
551364
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Shiverlynn
8% is the hit cap for special attacks. That didn't change, but since HS no longer turns our mainhand attacks into a yellow hit (nor does it bug the off-hand attack), we now need to go above the special attacks cap, the new cap to aim for is 27% (or 24% with talents, I believe).
Post by
Foopeemoa
Hit needs to be basically at 27% for steady rage income.
I actually moved slam off my main bar since its so hard to shake the urge to hit it when I get a bloodsurge proc. Most fights I don't even end up hitting slam at all.
The only time I would hit slam now is:
- Everything else is on cooldown
- You have too much rage (if you have under 60 rage, hit Battle/Commanding Shout)
- You have a bloodsurge proc
With the buff to warriors, I find my dps in ICC to be about the same as it was pre-4.0, perhaps slightly higher. AoE dps is significantly higher if there are more than 3 mobs.
Post by
Rhaegar
Here's what I've been doing, and it's been working pretty well. Use Heroic Strike (if you can) right after BT; that way, if you get a Battle Trance proc, it will be used to make your 30 rage Heroic Strike free of charge. In addition, if after the Heroic Strike I am still at 65+ rage (the number you choose can vary, but a high number), I know I can Slam without starving myself IF Bloodsurge procs AND Raging Blow is on cooldown. Like the warrior in the initial example, I too do very few Slams doing it that way, but I never have rage problems.
For reference that is sitting at 25.x% hit, ~35% crit, 200-some haste and no mastery (besides what we get innately from the ability). I'm not sure if you would even have the rage to slam if not at/near hit cap.
But yeah, absolutely HS over Slam was pulling ahead for me as it seems to be for everyone. I'm not sure about speccing out of Bloodsurge though, if only because I don't know what else you'd spec into that would improve DPS. Right now I am at 3/31/2 with two in Incite, of course, although 2/31/3 might be better (I wager it's negligible either way but I can't say for sure).
This is in an average ilvl of 254, with the above stats. Maxed out at 13.1K on Fester 10 normal, with the 30% buff of course.
Post by
Kurasmaniac
I would go 3/31/2, Incite is still RNG (relys on crits) while war academy is a passive dmg increase to HS, Cleave and Slam (in most cases flat % increases to dmg. trump anything else)
My experience is that i have not been hitting slam for the majority of fights, but assuming rage allows it's a dps increase to have it on your bar. Since i can't jump-cancel anymore i am also using a /slam /stopcast macro in case i clip the bloodsurge right at the end of its duration.
Post by
514781
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ParadOxyMoron
Well, this poses another question entirely, then.
If Slam does next to no damage now, wouldn't SMF be much better than TG? They were "balanced" in that Slam and RB both scaled with weapon damage (for TG) and BT, Execute, and (now) HS scale with Attack Power (for SMF). If slam is getting removed, and Heroic Strike added in, wouldn't the 15% damage increase from SMF more than compensate for the fact you're using 1hers? I'll see if I can pick up another 1h today, and post my results.
Post by
149687
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
marklartank
As arms I find my self rage starved alot. I like Hs over slam but it's a big rage drain if I have enough to use it all. Is haste something arms warts should consider using instead of mastery?
i think probably not. i've been ignoring slam almost completely outside of deadly calm, and using HS at around 75 rage. also, timing HS just before an OP or rend refresh helps you to not rage-starve yourself.
on the other hand, mastery appears to be a very good stat and i've been taking that over haste.
Post by
Sakkura
Well, this poses another question entirely, then.
If Slam does next to no damage now, wouldn't SMF be much better than TG? They were "balanced" in that Slam and RB both scaled with weapon damage (for TG) and BT, Execute, and (now) HS scale with Attack Power (for SMF). If slam is getting removed, and Heroic Strike added in, wouldn't the 15% damage increase from SMF more than compensate for the fact you're using 1hers? I'll see if I can pick up another 1h today, and post my results.
It could, but right now the itemization for SMF isn't really there so it doesn't make much of a difference. By the time we get to level 85 they hopefully iron out things like this, either by making slam better (preferred solution) or by balancing TG and SMF against each other with the weak slam in mind.
Post by
Kurasmaniac
Stats
27% hit, 26 expertise, 38% crit.
Haste is nice, but you should focus on the previous stats mentioned until you have similar numbers.
Since the patch the new expertise cap is 22. Tested on EJ by both the paladin and warrior theory-people.
Apologies for the minor nitpick but it's definately worth mentioning =)
Post by
septimx
SMF, not quite viable atm, as no nice 1hand axes for us....
and Fyi to others, precision bonus of 3% hit is passive now for fury warrior...
now reading up on the EJ thread regarding expertise, will try it out at 22, and reforge more on other needed stats...
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