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What's with all the America hate?
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Post by
HiVolt
Funny thing is, I bet people like you are also on the "NCLB is bad" boat. It's not necessarily that NCLB is bad, but it does have flaws, like nearly any type of federal legislation- flaws that need to be and should be reformed. My main problem with NCLB is the act's reliance on standardized testing as the primary means of measure for the proficiency of students. Granted, standardized tests are a good way to determine the ability of students to take tests, but they fail to quantize those students understanding of the material provided on the test. One could easily pass a standardized test by merely filling in answer bubbles at random- to me, that is a very bad flaw that needs to be reformed.
Torture is good, those guys deserved what they got. It's not all about confession.
Then what is it about? Justice? No warrant for arrest or detainment. No trial by a jury. No lawyer present to represent the accused. And in probably nearly all cases- completely forced confessions. That is not justice- not by any means in the American sense of the word.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
America should stop saying it's #1 and start acting like it.
Post by
374287
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Post by
wolfeyoung
Torture is bad.
However, I don't feel that waterboarding is torture in the traditional sense. My attitude stems from seeing torture as physical pain that may lead to physical deformity. I see waterboarding as a psychological. You think you're drowning and I'd imagined that it is a horrible thing to go through and I wouldn't want to go through it.
I may be wrong in my opinion, but it is the way I feel.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
Torture is bad.
However, I don't feel that waterboarding is torture in the traditional sense. My attitude stems from seeing torture as physical pain that may lead to physical deformity. I see waterboarding as a psychological. You think you're drowning and I'd imagined that it is a horrible thing to go through and I wouldn't want to go through it.
I may be wrong in my opinion, but it is the way I feel.
Got to agree on most points here. It's not like the guy is going to die from it.
Post by
Patty
Torture is bad.
However, I don't feel that waterboarding is torture in the traditional sense. My attitude stems from seeing torture as physical pain that may lead to physical deformity. I see waterboarding as a psychological. You think you're drowning and I'd imagined that it is a horrible thing to go through and I wouldn't want to go through it.
I may be wrong in my opinion, but it is the way I feel.
Got to agree on most points here. It's not like the guy is going to die from it.
It's still torture, even if it's psychological. They may not bear physical scars as a reminder of what happened to them, but mental scars, which are much more difficult in many cases to come to terms with.
Post by
238331
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Post by
204878
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Post by
238331
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Post by
Patty
I think a lot of people are forgetting that we're talking about
terrorists
being tortured. Who cares if they're mentally scarred from waterboarding? They should be mentally scarred for having plotted the deaths of innocent people
for no real reason
.
From your viewpoint.
Post by
324987
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Post by
Monday
I agree that torture is horrible, but I'm going to play devil's advocate.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that we're talking about
terrorists
being tortured. Who cares if they're mentally scarred from waterboarding? They should be mentally scarred for having plotted the deaths of innocent people
for no real reason
.
From your viewpoint.
So you say that neither Khalid nor Abi Zubaida are terrorists Patty?
Post by
wolfeyoung
I'll one other aspect about waterboarding.
It has been preformed on American soldiers in the past as a form of training, with the purpose of preparing our young men for the possibility of capture by the enemy and subsequent torture (it was ended due to it lowering the morale of the soldiers immensely). This is part of the reason I'm hesitant to place waterboarding in the category of torture.
However, I'll add that, though I feel it is not torture in the traditional sense, I do feel that using this technique can be abused with multiple usages and prolonged usage, at which point I'll concede it as torture. But I feel that goes with any interrogation technique. Even the most innocent of things, when overdone, can become abusive and lead into torture.
I am not saying that I am right in my opinion, only that it is my opinion.
Edit: When it comes to mental abuse, do you feel that inmates in our American prison system don't suffer lifelong mental stress from the experience? I am inclined to say yes. Prison is horrible. Maximum security cells average about 8 x 12 and inmates spend up to 23 hours a day. Add in the violence experienced in prisons. This is mentally abusive. Using mental abuse as a yardstick to determine torture is unreliable because then most prisons are torture.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
So you say that neither Khalid nor Abi Zubaida are terrorists Patty?
They are certainly extremists, but I would be reluctant to use the phrase 'terrorist', when its definition is so dubious.
Post by
Monday
Dr. Lore, reminds me of the quest in Borean Tundra, with the Kirin Tor.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
wolfeyoung
Do you not think submerging someone's head in water for extended periods of time is torture? Your body can't tell the difference between that and waterboarding (except the overall wetness).
In my last post I said the same thing. At a certain point, even non-torture does become torture. I agree completely. I'll even go and say that American soldiers, in all likelihood, took their interrogation too far and crossed the line. Wasn't one of them waterboarded 180+ times? But still,
used systematically and with caution
, I feel that waterboarding isn't torture.
A simpler example: lets say we had the technology to stimulate your nerves in such a way as your brain told you someone was cutting off your fingers with all the associated pain, would that be torture? It's simulated, but it has the same effect.
I do like your example, but there is a slight difference. In waterboarding, what is at risk is death and not permanent deformity. Once waterboarding is done, the prisoner is alive and they know they're alive. It's like falling into a swimming pool and nearly drowning. Yes, you may never go near a pool again for the rest of you life but chances are, it'll not affect the other areas of your life. Again, I say this with idea that one does not use these techniques to the extreme, because once you cross that line, then, using my example, it would be like pushing someone into a pool that can't swim once every day. After a months of this, it'll destroy them mentally.
I'll say this: the activities that occurred at Gitmo may have been torture though not because of the techniques were torture but because those techniques were abused and over used.
Post by
Monday
Dr. Lore, reminds me of the quest in Borean Tundra, with the Kirin Tor.
If you're talking about
this'n
, I found it very dark for such a low-rated game.
'tis the one I am speaking of.
Post by
457614
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