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Atheism / Agnosticism
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Post by
MyTie
So, you accept that it is possible that God exists? If so, you are not an atheist.
Indeed I do, and indeed I am.So you accept the possiblity that God exist, and simultaniously
reject the possibility of God
? And you say I don't know anything about atheism.The whole point of the "teapot/dragon/fairy" example, as I typically see it used, is to answer the claim you're making. To suggest I am agnostic about god is like suggesting you are agnostic about dragons or fairies or insert-your-preferred-analogy - which would render the term meaningless, hence I consider myself atheist. (Same position as Richard Dawkins, Stephen Fry, or most other atheists I'm aware of.)I'm not agnostic about dragons. Dragons don't exist. I think our problem here is that we aren't talking about the same things. Spend 10 minutes and read some basic descriptions for atheism and agnosticism and then come back.But none of that explains why you'd think an atheist would "wholesale reject" love or death or morality, which is what I was asking.I'm not saying that atheism always goes with that, but that I've seen atheists in this forum do this. Also I've seen atheists who are very civil and don't mock other's beliefs. My criticisms aren't toward atheism itself, nor its adherants. My argument is for the specific subset of atheists who mock and are bitterly angry toward those people with religious beliefs. Some of these people don't even know that they are doing it.
On a side note, it's great to see you on these debates again, fenomas.
Post by
Orranis
So, you accept that it is possible that God exists? If so, you are not an atheist.
Indeed I do, and indeed I am.So you accept the possiblity that God exist, and simultaniously
reject the possibility of God
? And you say I don't know anything about atheism.
Query: Did you read said Wikipedia article?
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
...
Atheists tend to be skeptical of supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence for deities.
I think I could go on. I actually couldn't find a mention of Atheism, not explicit or implicit or any sort of extra-word-added-Atheism, but Atheism, being the rejection of the possibility of God within the entire article. That even surprised me.
Post by
MyTie
I did read it. My description of the atheists who reject what they cannot prove beyond a doubt stands. For someone to come here and tell me that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I suppose in a broad sense, the absence of belief in a deity could be construed as atheism, as it says, but I think that is more accurately described as agnosticism.
Post by
Squishalot
I think I could go on. I actually couldn't find a mention of Atheism, not explicit or implicit or any sort of extra-word-added-Atheism, but Atheism, being
the rejection of the possibility of God
within the entire article. That even surprised me.
In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically
the position that there are no deities
.
Second sentence.
Post by
Lombax
@MyTie. What evidence is there of god?
@Funden. Yes it's a lousy argument, I'm just tired with religion causing so much &*!@ over something that may as well be fictional.
Post by
Squishalot
I'm just tired with religion causing so much &*!@ over something that may as well be fictional.
I'm tired of 'atheists' causing so much &*!@ over something that might actually be true.
Post by
Lombax
I'm just tired with religion causing so much &*!@ over something that may as well be fictional.
I'm tired of 'atheists' causing so much &*!@ over something that might actually be true.
I feel I should expand a little on my thoughts, I'm not talking about worshpping a deity. I'm talking about all the hate being spread by certain religions/cults. Take the pope for a example, he's a ignorant #$%^&*! and he's on of the biggest religious guys out there.
I feel that religion is spreading ignorance about science.
Post by
Squishalot
I feel I should expand a little on my thoughts, I'm not talking about worshpping a deity. I'm talking about all the hate being spread by certain religions/cults.
I know, and I'm not talking about the lack of worshipping a deity. I'm talking about all the hate on web forums being spread by certain non-religious people. It's quite frequent, unfortunately.
Post by
Lombax
I feel I should expand a little on my thoughts, I'm not talking about worshpping a deity. I'm talking about all the hate being spread by certain religions/cults.
I know, and I'm not talking about the lack of worshipping a deity. I'm talking about all the hate on web forums being spread by certain non-religious people. It's quite frequent, unfortunately.
That hate should not be hate, I would accept it if it was dislike but not hate. Or rather, I would accept hate if it was towards the religion and not the followers. I personally can't like religion nor follow it because it teaches you to just blindly follow and not question, but this doesn't make me hate religion. Generally speaking the hate towards religious people/ religion is unjustified.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
@MyTie. What evidence is there of god?
Existence.
Are you starting a new conversation, or are you expanding on my rejection of mockery?
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Naturally. Likewise, I'm not agnostic about god. God doesn't exist. Dig? That's the point that the invisible dragon (and teapot, and garden fairy) analogies were created to make.
This is the reason why I dislike the teapot analogy. It makes the flawed assumption that God doesn't exist. Once you make that assumption, it's easy to find evidence to justify your argument - just as easy, in fact, as finding evidence to justify the 'fact' that God does exist.
Why are you making factual claims about something you can't demonstrate factually? Again, there is no basis for the analogy.
I suppose Richard Dawkings can consider himself anything he likes, but
Richard Dawkins considers himself a de facto atheist
.
I don't think anybody is denying that, however, he also acknowledges that a '7' is the only true atheist.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lombax
@MyTie. What evidence is there of god?
Existence.
Are you starting a new conversation, or are you expanding on my rejection of mockery?
A bit of both.
I can't accept that argument MyTie, it would only work if I did believe in god.
Post by
MyTie
So you accept the possiblity that God existYesI'm not agnostic about god. God doesn't exist.So, you accept that it is possible that God exists? If so, you are not an atheist.Indeed I do, and indeed I am./boggle
Post by
Squishalot
<snip>
I'm not agnostic about god.
God doesn't exist
. Dig? That's the point that the invisible dragon (and teapot, and garden fairy) analogies were created to make.
There's your factual claim / assumption. If you're starting with the basis that God doesn't exist, and that's the point about the teapot, then you're not starting from a reasonable position.
I doubt that very much. Source?
By virtue of the fact that he refers to a '6' as merely a 'de facto atheist'. To suggest that a '6' counts as an atheist would be to say that civil unions = marriage, and we all know how that's received. '6' is clearly an agnostic position, and Dawkins has acknowledged it as much, in writing and in debates.
Post by
MyTie
I can't accept that argument MyTie, it would only work if I did believe in god.
Ok. I can accept your argument. I don't agree with you, but I certainly can see the discussion from your perspective.
Post by
Azazel
Let's say there was someboy found some undeniable proof that God does/doesn't exist. Would you still believe in what you did before this discovery?
I personally think our thoughts are so deeply ingrained that few would change side. Of course some would, but I don't think it'd be quite a big number of people. I think most people would just claim it as false and move on with their lives.
But I want to ask you guys, what would you do? What would you do if you were an atheist and suddenly God was real, or if you were a Christian and suddenly God wasn't real.
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