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Curious about Sub. raiding
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Post by
21386
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Post by
StealthyKyrie
*scratching head* Well, numbers don't lie i suppose. Though i do have to say, it takes work to not pull over 5k...spamming hemo alone even without recup or any finisher would net 4 to 5k....and i tend to pull 10 to 11k on boss fights (dungeon) and im not even raid geared yet.
*shrug* guess this is where i go try a it out and if it fails ill just have to respec one of my sub specs out.
Post by
335633
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Post by
335609
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Post by
chloe7
Tried sub in several hcs and BH, my gear's not bad, but sub is. On trash I never had the time that sub needs to build dps, but Argaloth my dps was 12k - whereas muti was 10k, with slightly better gear. So for me it was great on bosses and tough mobs, but regular trash was just embarassing. Ofc I might've just had a bad spec / routine with no exp etc, but would be nice if it worked and I was just doing it wrong.
Post by
StealthyKyrie
Tried sub in several hcs and BH, my gear's not bad, but sub is. On trash I never had the time that sub needs to build dps, but Argaloth my dps was 12k - whereas muti was 10k, with slightly better gear. So for me it was great on bosses and tough mobs, but regular trash was just embarassing. Ofc I might've just had a bad spec / routine with no exp etc, but would be nice if it worked and I was just doing it wrong.
Sub for multi trash is horrible. You can do something if you get recup up, and fok is cheaper as sub, but you shouldnt really expect to pull very high when compared to combat. (especially as multi-mob is where combat shines imho). Basically you would do more dps, just throwing recup up and backstab spamming one mob before moving on. Or just bite the bullet and help out the rest of the aoe dps with fok, even at the cost of lower dps.
*shrug* One tank pretty much told me to stop worrying about the dps meter except on bosses and just focus on helping the party/raid. Eh, i just follow whatever the boss needs me to do :P
Post by
Ippon
Ippon, you do realize that the "average" for most of those fights for Sub rogues is from one or two parses, total?
There's a reason for that. No one that isn't terrible is playing it.
Post by
335609
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Post by
593968
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Post by
Coldkil
but from my experiance, Sub is hitting harder dps on single target encounters then mut is, at least for magmaw and the BH boss. I only tried mut on the others.
you are doing something wrong.
Post by
593968
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Post by
Coldkil
Thank you for your epic response, although I am not one for sarcasm. Anywho, apparently you think I am doing something wrong but you do not say anything. What is wrong? Forgive me if I seem ignorant, but what does your post mean exactly? How does one sentence responses give a complete answer to my question?
the fact magmaw fight is all about aoe and then nuke phase which is perfectly timed with assassination cooldowns, coupled with the fact assassination has the strongets aoe of the rogue specs, makes me think of 2 things:
- other rogues in your raid are extermely bad or
- you play assassination wrong.
also, about argaloth: depending on tactics, you will be facing the boss half the fight more or less, so you can't use backstab half the times. even if you go behind the boss all the time (thing that you shouldn't do) you won't be able to pull assassination dps, i can assure you.
the fact you manage to reach 12-13k (only guessed numbers) when assassination can easily break 18k dps means that sub is severely underpar.
dunno if in a patchwerk-style fight sub manages to reach decent dps levels, but there are no fight like this atm. so until sublety is fixed, don't worry about it. and if you manage to top dps meters with it, that means the others in your raid need a hand. a really big one. or a brain.
Post by
593968
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Post by
Coldkil
I accept and respect your point of view. Anyway a major flaw about sub raiding is that there isn't anyone sure about anything right now.
It's not that we hate sub or similar, it's just that the few tests about it have proven that it is a sub-par spec, and since most of us here ponit to the optimal performance, hence the doubts against sublety.
Believe me, i really want a viable sub PvE spec, but i'll use it only if its dps is ciomparable to the other trees. I'd feel myself a weight to my guildies if i don't pull enough dps in raid, since it's the role we are supposed to fulfill. Rogues bring only a few buffs, covered by other classes, and dps. If a rogue doesn't dps, is near to useless.
It's not a matter of hardcore progression, it's just how we see the game. We are different people so we play the game in different ways.
Being back on topic, i think sub is not underestimated, just it's way too much complex to be viable in a raid enviroment. It needs a lot of rework since it's not just a matter of tweaking coefficents. One major problem is the use of recuperate, they should put the energy regen into SnD imho (a tick every 3 sec).
Anyway there are not a lot of parsese around, so we are not sure about stats priority, cycle, or whatsoever.
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