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Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
tuckmuck203
On topic: I'm frustrated at people who use the "game is easy" argument for everything. You want hard !@#$? Go play I Wanna Be The %^&*ing Guy.
lolumad?On topic: I'm frustrated at people who use the "game is easy" argument for everything. You want hard !@#$? Go play I Wanna Be The %^&*ing Guy.
Somwhat connected to this, I get frustrated with people who give up without even trying. Seriously, if stuff is too hard, you try again and again until you've actually $%^&ing learned something.
Because the game IS easy. The only thing is that what passes for a really good player in WoW passes for average in almost any other MMO.
People were getting stuck on saurfang in ICC. HOW? It's a tank 'n' spank fight except for the blood beasts and the marks. The blood beasts are easy as hell, and the marks just need a little extra healing.
The only "difficult" fights in ICC are lich king and BQ. The rest just requires coordination.
Why does that mean it's easy, wouldn't that mean it's hard...?
Maybe you're just too awesome at WoW.
No, it just means that you need to have an attention span of more than 8 minutes, have at least one completely usable hand, not be blind, and not be deaf.
Very rare, apparently.
Post by
Monday
My grandfather just had a stroke, pretty severe too. So my dad is going to visit him, and he lives in a town about 400 miles south of us. My dad will be gone for Christmas.
I understand that my grandmother will want my dad there for Christmas, but I still want him here for Christmas.
Post by
Interest
@tuckmuck203: That's the kind of attitude I seriously dislike.
And honestly? You consider Blood Queen difficult but laugh at Saurfang? Where's the logic of that? They're pretty much both "tank and spank" as you so quaintly put it.
Also, coordination isn't just something involving you. Keep in mind people do have to work as a team. That's actually much harder than it sounds but since most anything people do in game and out of game revolves around teamwork, we've been desensitized to the actual value of it, making us believe coordination is "easy" when in fact it could be quite (or equally) difficult to get right, especially if even one mistake can be costly.
I would make the "link LK Heroic kill" argument, but honestly that's probably equally as ^&*!headed as the mentality of most people coming out of Wrath of the Lich King. People just don't know how good they have it, and how difficult the game is in comparison to another (such as Runescape, or most single player RPGs). They just set the standard against itself and potentially get masochistic about WoW, demanding nigh impossible difficulty so that if they succeed, they can be a special snowflake...at a game.
That's why I dislike the "game is easy" argument. And counter by demanding they try out another game and if they want the difficulty and pain they seek oh so much, so why not I Wanna Be The Guy?
E: Add the "time spent = high difficulty" argument to the list as well. Spending large amounts of time on a task does NOT equate to difficulty.
Post by
Orranis
On topic: I'm frustrated at people who use the "game is easy" argument for everything. You want hard !@#$? Go play I Wanna Be The %^&*ing Guy.
Somwhat connected to this, I get frustrated with people who give up without even trying. Seriously, if stuff is too hard, you try again and again until you've actually $%^&ing learned something.
Because the game IS easy. The only thing is that what passes for a really good player in WoW passes for average in almost any other MMO. People were getting stuck on saurfang in ICC. HOW? It's a tank 'n' spank fight except for the blood beasts and the marks. The blood beasts are easy as hell, and the marks just need a little extra healing.
The only "difficult" fights in ICC are lich king and BQ. The rest just requires coordination.
Meh, to each their own. My guild found Lich King difficult as all probably due, but when it came to hardmodes BQ was much easier then H BPC or H Putricide for us. Similarly, it depends on your comp. When we had a range heavy group we facerolled H Saurfang, but in a melee heavy group he ended up being harder then H Sindragosa. H LK... Oh man.
Edit: I'm just going to clarify, I believe there are two main types of PvE encounters. Coordination encounters, and individual skill check encounters. Coordination encounters are what I generally consider harder, at least for my guild. These are fights like H Putricide, Sindragosa, Blood Council, and so on and so forth. It's less about DPS and more about survival, and involves multiple complicated mechanics that require group coordination. H Putricide's plague is the ideal example, because it must be past off from one raid member to another but nobody can get it twice, God forbid three times. Mid-combat it becomes extremely hard to keep track of anyone but your own stacks, making huge amounts of room for error. Your group must move, spread, converge, and so on at different times, and if one person fails it can mean a total wipe.
The other type is a slightly wider range, from the Gearcheck Patchwerk to Blood Queen to Saurfang. While these aren't all tank and spank fights, they require little to no coordination between the group, relying on the idea of each players individual skill. While in Coordination fights fire is dropped and the entire raid group has to get out of it and everyone has to stay X yards apart to minimize Y damage, or converge at X so that everyone eats a little of Z abilities cleave and it doesn't one shot anyone, this fight is more originated around individuals. Lanathel's/Jarraxus type fire isn't dropped instantly, but rather put on one person and that one person has Y amount of seconds to get out of the raid group. If he doesn't, unless you have a well coordinated group, it's probably a wipe. So while coordination helps, in the end it's still down to the individual to kite blood beasts or drop fire away from raid. At the same time, other individual characteristics come more into play. Your groups DPS becomes a serious issue, and while the Unholy DK casting Unholy Frenzy on a Fury Warrior rather then himself makes a difference, DPS is and will always be still mostly down to the person holding the swords.
The truly 'difficult' or even 'hard' encounters combine these. The Lich King encounter requires heavy coordination for spreading for defile and grouping in center for valks, and then at the same time your group has to be able to bring the Valks down fast and handle stuns and slows, thus requiring high DPS. Even more then this, they require 'on-the-fly' coordination. What happens if defile is about to pop at the same time as Valk? Should you group up in center or spread? If the valk is about to go off the cliff, maybe you can kill it and then hope that both you and the dropped person can get out of it in time. If Warlocks can 'port' back up, is it worth attacking the valk carrying a Warlock? Or is the Warlocks port already on cooldown? Do you trust your raid enough to get out of the Defile in time? God forbid hardmode.
Post by
Perkocet
I don't have any frustrations because my life is amazing. It's okay, you can be jealous. It makes me feel good about myself. :)
Post by
tuckmuck203
I find blood queen more difficult because you have to pay attention to who the highest dpsers are, where they are, where the chained people are, where the aoe fire stuff is, etc.
Saurfang is pretty much toss a little extra healing on the marks, go crazy on the dps, and kite around a few mobs every so often.
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15, and I don't have the time to commit to a serious raiding guild, and I always end up in the guilds that are too casual to get very far, and too elitist to not get mad when we wipe because everyone's too obsessed with thier dps epeens to pay attention to mechanics.
I judge how difficult a fight it by how much you have to keep inmind as the fight progresses. Sindy is easy as #$%^ because it's just two phases repeated over and over, and then just a combination of the two phases.
Oh, and I don't consider large amounts of time spent on fights equating to difficulty. However, if something is difficult , it may require a long time to do. Correlation != causation.
Post by
BuryYourDead
Well, i just ran out of silver rizzlers. I half a half ounce of Amnesia sitting beside me and sweet #$%^ all to roll with. There's too much snow outside to go to the shop and i broke my bong after getting completely hazed and tripping on my phone charger cable. I hate taking waterfalls, buckets and phuckets because of the amount of coughing and also because my parents are home. I think i might cry.
Also, hi everyone. i r bakz agen
Post by
Monday
Ohaithar.
Been awhile.
Post by
BuryYourDead
It has. Im focusing on coursework in college, cuz, yeno, im smart n stuff....
Actually, because i don't do the work in class and have to do it at home.
Post by
Orranis
I find blood queen more difficult because you have to pay attention to who the highest dpsers are, where they are, where the chained people are, where the aoe fire stuff is, etc.
Saurfang is pretty much toss a little extra healing on the marks, go crazy on the dps, and kite around a few mobs every so often.
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15, and I don't have the time to commit to a serious raiding guild, and I always end up in the guilds that are too casual to get very far, and too elitist to not get mad when we wipe because everyone's too obsessed with thier dps epeens to pay attention to mechanics.
I stopped here.
Let me just throw something in here. I'm Fourteen, and I've done two years of Highschool already. By the time I leave Highschool, I'm going to have two years of college credits. I am literally not allowed to play in the week, and the most I can get in is thirty-thirty five minutes if I go home straight away from school before my dad gets home.
My guild raids twice a week, Friday and Saturday nights, though we made an exception once and raided Sunday too. You know what that exception was? For when we got Bane.
So bull-$%^&ing-@#$% it's everyone else's fault. You haven't downed Lich King for the same reason every other person who didn't didn't. WoW is a game of teamwork, so no matter how hard it is for you individually, if nine other people can't do it it's still a hard game. You seem like the kind of person to me who comes second last on the DPS meter and blames the fact that he had to deal with mechanics, then proceeds to blame the wipe on everyone else.
Post by
tuckmuck203
I find blood queen more difficult because you have to pay attention to who the highest dpsers are, where they are, where the chained people are, where the aoe fire stuff is, etc.
Saurfang is pretty much toss a little extra healing on the marks, go crazy on the dps, and kite around a few mobs every so often.
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15, and I don't have the time to commit to a serious raiding guild, and I always end up in the guilds that are too casual to get very far, and too elitist to not get mad when we wipe because everyone's too obsessed with thier dps epeens to pay attention to mechanics.
I stopped here.
Let me just throw something in here. I'm Fourteen, and I've done two years of Highschool already. By the time I leave Highschool, I'm going to have two years of college credits. I am literally not allowed to play in the week, and the most I can get in is thirty-thirty five minutes if I go home straight away from school before my dad gets home.
My guild raids twice a week, Friday and Saturday nights, though we made an exception once and raided Sunday too. You know what that exception was? For when we got Bane.
So bull-$%^&ing-@#$% it's everyone else's fault. You haven't downed Lich King for the same reason every other person who didn't didn't. WoW is a game of teamwork, so no matter how hard it is for you individually, if nine other people can't do it it's still a hard game. You seem like the kind of person to me who comes second last on the DPS meter and blames the fact that he had to deal with mechanics, then proceeds to blame the wipe on everyone else.
I'm...so confused....I don't understand how you not being able to make it to a raid means that fights are hard....And don't say it's because of teamwork, because read the rest of my post.
Two more things.
One, it's not teamwork. It's knowing what you have to do, and watching out for other people. Take Saurfang for example. Blood beasts come out, you have to kill them. That's not teamwork. Say someone pulled aggro on two of them by mistake, and thier slow is on cooldown, you toss a slow on the beast, and everyone's dandy. That's not teamwork either, that's just situational awareness.
Two, anyone can make baseless assumptions about another person. And anyone can make baseless retorts back. Not that I think you'll believe me, but I've never once come in last on DPS, barring when I've been outgeared significantly by everyone else.
Even in the early levels when boa people were pulling 170 dps, I was pulling 200, because I know my class. (This was when I rerolled on a new server, on my previous server my main was a fire mage as well)
Post by
Monday
I'm...so confused....I don't understand how you not being able to make it to a raid means that fights are hard
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15, and I don't have the time to commit to a serious raiding guild,
I'm Fourteen, and I've done two years of Highschool already
My guild raids twice a week, Friday and Saturday nights, though we made an exception once and raided Sunday too. You know what that exception was? For when we got Bane.
He's saying that he managed to get Bane of the Fallen King while only 14 and only raiding on Sunday. He says that your being 15 means squat, and that you aren't in a real raiding guild because you aren't very good.
Post by
Interest
I'm...so confused....
Obviously. You're so narrowminded you couldn't possibly see the points where me or Orranis comes from.
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15
Really? That's your best foot forward?
I was parental controlled, and therefore couldn't do anything outside of dailies, at the age of EIGHTEEN.
Try. Again.
And don't use age as an excuse, btw. It's unbecoming.
Post by
tuckmuck203
I'm...so confused....I don't understand how you not being able to make it to a raid means that fights are hard
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15, and I don't have the time to commit to a serious raiding guild,
I'm Fourteen, and I've done two years of Highschool already
My guild raids twice a week, Friday and Saturday nights, though we made an exception once and raided Sunday too. You know what that exception was? For when we got Bane.
He's saying that he managed to get Bane of the Fallen King while only 14 and only raiding on Sunday. He says that your being 15 means squat, and that you aren't in a real raiding guild because you aren't very good.
I'm...so confused....
Obviously. You're so narrowminded you couldn't possibly see the points where me or Orranis comes from.
I've never downed LK. That's because I'm 15
Really? That's your best foot forward?
I was parental controlled, and therefore couldn't do anything outside of dailies, at the age of EIGHTEEN.
Try. Again.
And don't use age as an excuse, btw. It's unbecoming.
I'm not using age as an excuse, I'm saying that I'm 15, and I doubt any serious raiding guild is going to take me. My main was on Sen'Jin. Know any decen talliance side guilds that downed LK consistently and would let a 15 year old join? I certainly don't.
All the decent guilds on that server are either to serious to accept a 15 eyar old who may not be able to go because of other obligations, or so elitist they won't accept me because I'm 15 and apparently that equates to my having the mental aptitude of a monkey on salvia.
I'm not bad, and I doubt you'll believe me. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out that on my shaman who had a 5751 gearscore, before 4.0.1, I was doing 10k consistently in ICC except on deathwhisper.
I'm not narrowminded either. I came back to the discussion after 3 days. I lost track of the conversation, because it had been 3 very eventful days.
Don't be so condescending. I can't help but notice you're all pointing out that I'm a bad player now, instead of actually responding ot my points. You're using a goshadstep2lose style of arguing, and I won't be baited into it anymore. Any further discussion will be on my points, and I won't be responding to any comments about my, in game or in real life, character.
Post by
Monday
I'm just pointing out that on my shaman who had a 5751 gearscore, before 4.0.1, I was doing 10k consistently in ICC except on deathwhisper.
None of which matter.
I can't help but notice you're all pointing out that I'm a bad player now, instead of actually responding ot my points.
I'm not. I don't think you're a bad player, I just think you're focused on the wrong things (like age and GS).
Post by
Orranis
I'm not using age as an excuse, I'm saying that I'm 15, and I doubt any serious raiding guild is going to take me. My main was on Sen'Jin. Know any decen talliance side guilds that downed LK consistently and would let a 15 year old join? I certainly don't. I'm going to kindly ask you to reread this paragraph and check for contradictions.
All the decent guilds on that server are either to serious to accept a 15 eyar old who may not be able to go because of other obligations, or so elitist they won't accept me because I'm 15 and apparently that equates to my having the mental aptitude of a monkey on salvia.
No guild I have ever been in invited me because I said I was fourteen. Or because I didn't say I was fourteen. In fact, every guild I've been in has known my age. I was playing WoW at nine on my big brother's account and they knew my age.
I'm not bad, and I doubt you'll believe me. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out that on my shaman who had a 5751 gearscore, before 4.0.1, I was doing 10k consistently in ICC except on deathwhisper.
Bad? Maybe. I couldn't say, I haven't seen you do anything. (Although citing GS for skill is definitely frowned upon, and advertising 10k DPS with a 30% buff doesn't make you extraordinary either.)
Don't be so condescending. I can't help but notice you're all pointing out that I'm a bad player now, instead of actually responding ot my points.What points? You're using a goshadstep2lose style of arguing, and I won't be baited into it anymore. Any further discussion will be on my points, and I won't be responding to any comments about my, in game or in real life, character.
I'm not saying 'your bad.' I'm saying the way you think about the game is completely backwards. You get into a bad PuG that wipes on Deathbringer, and you go "This is an easy boss, how could these guys wipe on him?" That translates into, "This is an easy game, how can people wipe in it?" when you yourself have never experienced the hard content. Also, this game is as team-work oriented in any game. While each individual mechanic and target switch and button-click is your own, if nine other people, or just one other person aren't doing the right thing at the right time it will kill all of you.
Basically, my point boils down to this. No matter why it is you couldn't do it, until you yourself have defeated the hardest encounter in the game you cannot call the game easy. It doesn't matter that you're fifteen, or if every other single person on your server is bad or even if you're the only person above level 10, until you experience the very hardest the game has to offer you cannot judge it's difficulty.
Post by
421339
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
tuckmuck203
I'm not using age as an excuse, I'm saying that I'm 15, and I doubt any serious raiding guild is going to take me. My main was on Sen'Jin. Know any decen talliance side guilds that downed LK consistently and would let a 15 year old join? I certainly don't. I'm going to kindly ask you to reread this paragraph and check for contradictions.
All the decent guilds on that server are either to serious to accept a 15 eyar old who may not be able to go because of other obligations, or so elitist they won't accept me because I'm 15 and apparently that equates to my having the mental aptitude of a monkey on salvia.
No guild I have ever been in invited me because I said I was fourteen. Or because I didn't say I was fourteen. In fact, every guild I've been in has known my age. I was playing WoW at nine on my big brother's account and they knew my age.
I'm not bad, and I doubt you'll believe me. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out that on my shaman who had a 5751 gearscore, before 4.0.1, I was doing 10k consistently in ICC except on deathwhisper.
Bad? Maybe. I couldn't say, I haven't seen you do anything. (Although citing GS for skill is definitely frowned upon, and advertising 10k DPS with a 30% buff doesn't make you extraordinary either.)
Don't be so condescending. I can't help but notice you're all pointing out that I'm a bad player now, instead of actually responding ot my points.What points? You're using a goshadstep2lose style of arguing, and I won't be baited into it anymore. Any further discussion will be on my points, and I won't be responding to any comments about my, in game or in real life, character.
I'm not saying 'your bad.' I'm saying the way you think about the game is completely backwards. You get into a bad PuG that wipes on Deathbringer, and you go "This is an easy boss, how could these guys wipe on him?" That translates into, "This is an easy game, how can people wipe in it?" when you yourself have never experienced the hard content. Also, this game is as team-work oriented in any game. While each individual mechanic and target switch and button-click is your own, if nine other people, or just one other person aren't doing the right thing at the right time it will kill all of you.
Basically, my point boils down to this. No matter why it is you couldn't do it, until you yourself have defeated the hardest encounter in the game you cannot call the game easy. It doesn't matter that you're fifteen, or if every other single person on your server is bad or even if you're the only person above level 10, until you experience the very hardest the game has to offer you cannot judge it's difficulty.
Ahh, I see the misunderstanding. My bad guys. I was tryign to say that most of this game is easy, and idiots wipe on the easy stuff, such as saurfang. Hell, I was in a so called good guild on my server where we wiped on loot ship. Normal. Twice. I think they fell on thier keyboards so many times during the LK encounter that they just randomly got the encounter correct.
Some parts of this game are hard, some are easy.
Oh, and as to your first point Orranis, even if any guild would accept a 15 year old, there are like 3 total guilds on my old server that are any good. One being premonition, another one is full of ^&*!@#bags, and the third wouldn't accept me.
Citing gearscore isn't the mark of a bad player by the way. Gearscore is a tool. It's neutral. Let's not make this a gearscore debate though.
I didn't say I was an excellent player, I said I wasn't bad.
Also, I think we need to establish what your definition of excuse is. Is it jsut a reason? Then yes, it was an excuse I stated. Is it a stupid reason? Apparently that's what we're debating right now, so I'm not going to bother answering this with a no.
Post by
Orranis
Some parts of this game are hard, some are easy.
So I've made my point.
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