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2h frost - gems/chants
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631257
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Post by
Doring
Strength because most of your abilities scale directly off of it. Your two primary attributes for DPS are weapon DPS and Strength. Haste is good, better than crit, but not better than Strength.
All DK DPS is in Unholy Presence all the time. Faster GCD, faster rune generation and faster attack speed (haste) all add up to significantly better for DPS than any other presence.
If a weapon is a LOT better DPS but has agility, then it may do better, but in general, you want strength, stamina and not a lot else on your weapon. Don't wear agility gear, ever.
You want to cap hit and expertise if you can, reforging is good for this, then enchant as much strength and attack power as you can. Gem straight strength and you can't be far off.
Read stickies and EJ to keep up on the latest numbers but you won't be far wrong getting to caps and then all strength.
Post by
dervasavred
All DK DPS is in Unholy Presence all the time.
You want to cap hit and expertise if you can Read stickies and EJ to keep up on the latest numbers but you won't be far wrong getting to caps and then all strength.
No. DW Frost is in Frost Presence. All 2H DPS is in UH Presence, however.
Unholy has no desire to even touch Expertise. We do not want it at all, if possible.
Good advice on referring him to stickies and EJ, however. Keep up with Consider's blog as well.
Post by
apocalypsa
DW frost is not better than 2h, all dk dps specs are VERY equal. And yeah, read the stickies or EJ or whatever.
Post by
Doring
All DK DPS is in Unholy Presence all the time.
You want to cap hit and expertise if you can Read stickies and EJ to keep up on the latest numbers but you won't be far wrong getting to caps and then all strength.
No. DW Frost is in Frost Presence. All 2H DPS is in UH Presence, however.
Unholy has no desire to even touch Expertise. We do not want it at all, if possible.
Good advice on referring him to stickies and EJ, however. Keep up with Consider's blog as well.
Last I knew, the rune regen was worth more DPS than the extra strength and RP regen.
As to expertise, if you are a melee DPS, missing special attacks (Scourge Strike, Plague Strike and so on) is a DPS loss. If you have sucky Expertise, like 15-18, then it is enough of a gain to be worth it, if you are at 25, then don't bother.
Frost DPS Guide linked from Sticky
There is not enough change from 4.0.1 to 4.0.3 to invalidate the basic fundamentals. Equipment at BiS levels may change things somewhat but since that is rapidly changing, and the DPS difference is far less that what you may experience with lag and personal reaction times from encounter to encounter, sticking with what covers pretty much all scenarios all the time works better.
Post by
414927
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dervasavred
Last I knew, the rune regen was worth more DPS than the extra strength and RP regen.
As to expertise, if you are a melee DPS, missing special attacks (Scourge Strike, Plague Strike and so on) is a DPS loss.
There is not enough change from 4.0.1 to 4.0.3 to invalidate the basic fundamentals. Equipment at BiS levels may change things somewhat
No, Frost DW is in Frost Presence, Frost 2H is UH Pres.
From
Consider @ EJ's Frost DPS thread
:
| 7/31/3
The best Frost dps spec, and the only real choice for Frost DW. DPS as this spec is done in Frost Presence.
Unholy DPS does not need Expertise (our pet, which is 30-40% of UH's damage, gets Exp from our Hit, just like Hunter and Warlock pets; we have enough free GCDs until Haste softcap to make Expertise almost worthless to us). Frost specs want Exp softcap since they are GCD-constrained.
From
Consider @ EJ's UH DPS thread:
Expertise is as oddly distasteful as ever. If you can reach the haste soft-cap, then expertise would surpass crit (due to the fact that you’re GCD capped at that point), but beyond that, expertise is just not worth going out of your way to get. Unlike hit it doesn't affect our pet or our spell damage, and thus just doesn't have a large enough impact.
This is true whether BiS or not. I would encourage you to re-check Consider's testing for confirmation and please do not spread misinformation.
Post by
Doring
Ever miss a strike and get smacked dead? I have.
Ever miss other things at critical times and get smacked for it? I have.
Ever look at your lag and reaction time and understand the fact that the slight difference in over all DPS is realistically unimportant? I have.
Ever thought to yourself that just because something is great numerically that real life tends to bend you over with RNG because you don't live in a perfect world? I have.
Now, mathematically, it's all good, great in a perfect world. We don't live or play in a perfect world. Please stop acting like it. If I am not within a reasonable distance of expertise cap, then it clearly shows in my DPS. If your expertise is something like 12, then you will benefit from it a good deal. Gimping 60-70% of your DPS by poor expertise isn't a good idea. Do you have to get to cap, no, do you have to have something that isn't ridiculously low, yes.
While I appreciate your attempts at appearing all knowing, you do need to focus on the real world a little more. Until you can back up your logs of consistently parsing in the top 5% of the world then really, your reaction time and lag will account for far more DPS loss than any trade off you make for getting a reasonable level of expertise and the loss of expertise and hit will simply be magnified.
If you miss one GCD out of 100 because of expertise then it isn't much, if your reactions and timing space things out to where you miss that same GCD due to expertise but it is in a span of only 90, then the effect is 10% more important to you. One of these days when I make the time, I will wrote up the whole statistical analysis of reaction time and lag and how it effects your DPS and why when you have more lag and poorer reactions, anything that effects a GCD effects you more than the statistical model suggests.
Post by
131584
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
414927
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dervasavred
While I appreciate your attempts at appearing all knowing, you do need to focus on the real world a little more. Until you can back up your logs of consistently parsing in the top 5% of the world then really, your reaction time and lag will account for far more DPS loss than any trade off you make for getting a reasonable level of expertise and the loss of expertise and hit will simply be magnified.
Throne of the Four Winds (25) Top Rankings for Unholy DKs
I'm at #108. I wasn't assigned to full-time Nature boss duty nor was I a dedicated add-killer. I was in the flex DPS group jumping back and forth between Nature and Frost.
I was also around 140th on Magmaw 25, but more raids seem to have pushed me off the top-200 ranks. Will have to test out tonight to see what I can do.
I was world 7th for HM Saurfang 25 at 15% buff and world 9th for HM Festergut before I had my Shadowmourne. I was also world 3 on HM 25 Sindragosa for a bit.
RNG happens, but the fact of the matter is that Expertise just does not affect enough of our DPS to make it worth the lost itemization that could be Haste or Crit. If they buff Mastery for us to fuel our strikes, I can see Exp becoming more worth it, but that remains to be seen how they're implementing our Mastery buff.
Matter of fact, let's look at the top 10 Unholy DKs on a standard tank-and-spank for us like Magmaw. Let's see how their Exp is looking.
Magmaw 25 Normal Ranks
#1
Apollyonz
-- DW Unholy. 8 Exp
#2 Vivanda (EU Frostmane) is currently appearing in Frost DW gear and spec on Armory, so we'll skip him.
#3 (Hellfighter EU Dunemaul) doesn't appear on EU Armory.
#4
Mousepad
-- 2H UH, 10 Exp
#5
Sheyah
-- DW UH, 6 Exp
#6
Schooier
-- 2H UH, 25 Exp. This is the odd man out since he's so close to cap. After a quick glance at logs, he's also an off-tank for several fights and has the appropriate Blood spec to do it. He's got quite a bit of gear with Exp on it, then a secondary stat reforged to Mastery, sure signs of DPS gear that he uses to tank with. His weapon also has a hefty chunk of Exp on it, but, again, he's reforged the Hit to Mastery on it, showing he's using it to tank with as well.
#7 Alur (EU Frostmourne) doesn't show up on Armory.
#8
Trume
-- 2H UH, 15 Exp. Weapon contributes a hefty amount of that.
#9
Скайри
-- DW UH, 8 Exp
#10 Eloquence (EU Teredar) does not appear on Armory.
For consistency's sake, let's look at Top 5 Omnitron Defense System.
#1
Lamperouqe
-- 2H UH, 18 Exp. Also has a 2H Frost off-spec which does need Expertise. I imagine he's just sharing gear between the specs.
#2
Skullflower
-- Designer of a pretty clean DK UI during ICC days. He's currently in 2H Frost gear and spec on Armory, but only has 13 Exp in that spec. I imagine his gear is roughly similar for 2H UH.
#3
Бакси
-- 2H UH, 21 Exp. Another DK with a tank offspec. He reforged the Exp off of his weapon even though he's well below cap to Haste and the Exp off his chest to Hit.
#4
Mousepad
-- 2H UH, 10 Exp. Hey look, it's our #4 DK from Magmaw, Mousepad. Consistency!
#5
Sinebrychóf
-- 2H UH, 6 Exp
As a note, #6 was Vivanda again (#2 on Magmaw) and #10 was our buddy Sheyah (#5 on Magmaw). Eloquence was #16 (#10 on Magmaw), Schooier at #18 (#6 on Magmaw) and Apollyonz is #130 (#1 on Magmaw).
Finally, all these numbers mean little in the scope of just DKs. Top DPS on Magmaw 25 is a Lock at 42k (go go ranged AoE, eh?). Apollyonz, our top UH DK, is at 38. Top DPS in the world on Omnitron 25 is a Fire Mage at 28.4k. Our #1 DK, Lamperouqe is third at 26k.
Is that consistent enough results for low Expertise performing well?
How about this: Chimaeron, a fight where UH is forced to DPS from the front of the boss--making him susceptible to Parries--for part of the fight has our buddy Sheyah at World rank #4 overall and another UH DK,
Slayné
(with a whopping FOUR Expertise), sitting at World 8.
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