This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Thoughts/Advice on Arcane for newer players
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Articulatemis
So, this is actually my first post on Wowhead, although I've been playing WoW on and off since it first came out. What prompted me to sign up for an account and post is this: Lately I've been reading nothing but negative posts on the viability of arcane mages for both PvP and PvE. This is really my personal counter to all of that, so that newer players who are possibly interested in going arcane spec and are asking for advice aren't simply met with a "Just don't go arcane" type response. The goal of this thread is to emphasize learning game sense, and not to distribute mechanics-related advice to mages in general, and arcane mages in particular.
Honestly, it's somewhat disheartening to see so many players pigeonhole themselves into a certain spec or mindset because of general consensus. I play WoW because its not just another mechanical and reactionary game, like so many others. After playing for a while, you realize there's a certain flow in your gameplay that can be attributed to experience and game sense. While people may cite math and theorycrafting sources to support their arguments of which spec is better than the other, it should always be taken with a grain of salt. All of that, as important as it is, is still just an aid, and not the sole determining factor on which to lay the entire foundation of your gameplay upon. Knowing spell rotations and the like can be very helpful of course, but there's one thing you can't account for on a spreadsheet: Game sense.
I'm a firm believer in playing the game to have fun, and arcane just happens to be the spec I have the most fun with and also do the best in, after playing it primarily since Burning Crusade. While I acknowledge that if i fully devoted myself into either frost or fire, I could be just as good or even better than I am as arcane, not once have I ever felt like a detriment to my raid/party/battlegroup/arena partner. I do well, and I do well consistently, and if I'm not in the top dps, then I'm oftentimes not far behind. Your first priority shouldn't be an optimal spell rotation, it should be finding a spec you enjoy playing and then practicing that. You're not going to discover every nuance in the play of a particular class or spec after just a few weeks of playing it. Acquiring knowledge of gameplay mechanics should contribute to your game sense and not tunnel vision you into a dogmatic style of play. I want to instill this kind of thought process by relating advice I've learned through my own experiences in both pve and pvp content.
When I first saw what the mastery was going to be for arcane, I was immediately interested in finding out how it would affect my game. I took one look at it and was somewhat perplexed. It seemed like a complete contradiction to me. Mana adept increases your damage the more mana you have, yet arcane blast, the primary spell for arcane mages deals more damage and costs more mana the more it is used in succession. They seemed to counteract each other completely. A lot of people make fun of the arcane spec due to there being only three spells (two for some people) in the primary rotation, but there was definitely a challenge in finding a balance between managing mana and taking advantage of the increased damage of multiple arcane blast stacks, but that's what was needed: a balance. I could immediately discern that mastery was going to be important, as it provided a straight increase to dps and mana efficiency, with the sole condition of having to carefully manage your mana. As a result, I don't use the same rotation over and over again on a boss fight for example (ABx4 or x3 -> AM -> repeat, being the most common). I use different rotations based on what percentage of mana i'm currently at, and what cooldowns are available or almost up. I'm not going to list my personal specific rotations at which percentage, because I don't want to override what I just stated earlier in the post and have this turn into another mechanics discussion. I used this example of figuring out the mastery as a way to show what constitutes as sense. Decisions you make, whatever they might be, should have a reason to them, and not just because "Well, that's what they said in the forums."
Suffice it to say, there are dozens of considerations i take into account when i choose a particular ability to use over another at any given time. These have kind of become second nature to me while I'm playing, as it was acquired over a long period of time. The most important principle to show here is that it doesn't matter so much how good or bad you're doing in that exact moment. What matters is that you can recognize where you need improvement and that you know how to actively go about learning from your mistakes. After playing this game so many years, I'm still in that very process. You never stop learning.
Again, playing the game should be about your personal preference and improving upon that rather than blindly accepting what's considered as fact in the community as a whole. Don't be afraid to experiment, but be patient about it. Nobody ever became a pro at anything they picked up for the very first time. Preference can mean a lot of different things. To me, I prefer playing arcane over fire because having fewer hotkeys delegated to muscle memory in my hands means I can take better stock of the situation at hand. I don't have to pay attention to debuffs so much or worry about having to get that impact off to spread AoE, or worry about not overlapping my ignites. Instead, I can focus on the actual fight mechanics. If you've ever been in a party with me in heroics, you'll see I'm all over place, blinking through a breath that's about to cast in my direction, preemptively running towards adds that are about to spawn, or kiting multiple mobs at once, yet my dps will still be pretty decent by the end (around 12k or so at my current gear level, usually). The simplest way of putting it is, I never die from standing in fire (once you've done Illidari Council, that no longer becomes an issue). That's just how I like to play.
Again, don't feel like you have to confine yourself to a particular build or spell rotation because that's what's accepted as "good" in the wow community. You're not paying $15 a month to have other people tell you how to play. If you're frustrated with your performance, try to pinpoint what areas need improvement and focus on them one at a time. If you notice for example, that your dps is suffering because there are fractions of a second in idle time between global cooldowns for whatever reason, then concentrate on spamming your hotkeys more deliberately, or learning hotkeys if you happen to be a clicker. The immediate goal isn't just to have sense, its to develop sense based on your experiences so you can get better, faster. People don't prioritize this enough, instead concentrating solely on builds or spell rotations that are expected to propel you to the top right away.
When you ask somebody what they do when a warrior charges or intercepts them, they'll most likely immediately say "Blink as fast as possible" or something to that extent. Well yeah, but why? Its to keep as much distance as possible, because while that warrior is running to you (slowed, hopefully), you have an opening to cast freely without retaliation or disruption (depending). It sounds so obvious, but so many people lose sight of the broad strokes. If you know that the goal is to stay away, then you can devise other ways to achieve that goal. You don't need to scrap your entire spec because of an obstacle in order to overcome it. So in essence, while I'm not personally fond of playing fire or frost spec, I would never consider them inferior specs just because of my personal preference. There's limitations to every class and spec, and while some may be more apparent than others, these differences in limitations are quickly overshadowed by proper game sense and experience, which will account for most of your in-game successes regardless of how you play.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
sparknotes please
Post by
nickseng
That's ... an awfully long post to say play what you want.
Which I agree.
But I won't lie and say that all things being equal, Arcane tops dps. Which is what most of the posters ask for.
I think at the end of the day, too many people are obsessed with the number they pull, which is kinda sad (IMHO). So kudos for you, but I don't think you're gonna change the perception most players have.
Post by
752192
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Articulatemis
While I agree that most people, including myself, enjoy and play WoW competitively, the goal of this post was to give newer players (hence the title) a different impression on the game than from what I've seen in many other threads. I was stating that out-of-game resources (smoothness with using hotkeys, making good decisions) is just as important as in-game resources like spell rotations or builds, to the newer players who might take a look at the forums and automatically think to themselves that they can't be competitive with a certain spec. I personally believe that, although there might be a glass ceiling to the in-game mechanics of any build, there's no cap to learning game sense if you know where to look. I never said that choosing fire or frost meant you were "selling out" in any way, but so many of the newer players will dismiss one spec or the other as inferior because of what they see on a forum, and I felt like that was the wrong way to go about it.
The point was, you can play how you want and still be competitive if the things you do have a reason behind them. Attempting to tank as a fire mage in a heroic obviously makes no sense, but picking one spec over the other is a more subjective matter. Of course there's all sorts of theorycrafting and tests being done in the community that's very helpful, but many people will look at that data and base their decisions solely on that factor. Every class and spec has tools at their disposal and constraints to deal with that constitutes its playstyle. With that in mind, I believe in picking the playstyle you enjoy most.
I'm simply emphasizing learning the game over picking the "best" spec, for the newer players. For example, lets say an arcane mage player who loves his spec but is only doing 8k dps in end game content posts on the forums for advice. He'll most likely get a number of responses telling him to go a different spec accompanied by links to theorycrafting and sim sites. He decides to go fire and finds he doesn't really like it, but after playing it a while and learning what he should be doing, he manages to cap out at a measly 9k dps. Technically the forums were right, since he's now pulling off better damage, but can anybody honestly say that the spec was the real problem here? I just think its awful to consider that improvement.
Personally, I manage to stay competitive in pve and pvp content as an arcane mage, and contribute more than my fair share to the group. Although not the original intent of this thread, I would no doubt be able to impart specific advice to subtly tweak your gameplay to be more optimal, if people so inquired. I apologize for the length of the original post, as it was written in a flow of consciousness manner, and there were a lot of things on my mind, but I wanted to be as clear and concise as possible on encouraging newer players to play how they like and still do well by knowing how to learn to improve.
Post by
nickseng
I'm not complaining for me (I like to read, see), but having such a long post is going to work against your goal of getting new player to actually read the thing.
Something to think about. :)
Post by
373395
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Articulatemis
The TLDR can be summed up as: You can choose how you want to play and still be good at the game, which is why I find most threads regarding one spec as inferior to another absurd. Most people aren't playing their specs optimally (and not just in terms of numbers). If krispee really enjoys playing any spec just as much as the others, there's absolutely nothing wrong with going with the one that gives him personally the most edge. I just don't think people should disregard the other options because of a subjective personal experience.
As long as the original post was, it was only a taste of my appreciation for the subtle machinations behind the game. There is no TLDR summary for learning to improve. Honestly, the game's just not that simple, and I probably wouldn't be playing it if it was. I could probably teach a class on all that I know about the game and still not have covered everything there is to know about it. Veteran players learned these things on their own over time, though they might not consciously realize it. I was simply offering my thoughts on what it is to be a better gamer to newer players who might want to close the gap between themselves and and the veterans a little faster. Nobody has to read it, but for those interested, it's there.
Post by
Frox
I really like your post OP because it really does give another perspective other than from the competitive point of view.
The real issue here is "why did I spec Arcane/Fire/Frost?". For those people that want to bring the fullest of there class to their guild raids, it'll probably be the flavor of the month spec; currently, fire is the dominant specialization in PvE and frost being the PvP spec. On the other side of the spectrum are players that play regardless of others' opinions and do their own thing. But there are many players in between that believe that they can do optimal dps for the specialization they choose to play and do so marvelously.
The way Blizzard wants talent specs amongst dps classes to work is so that it can be taken into an encounter and is able to put out the numbers required for that fight. The difficulty of balancing three dps specs and making them all viable for raiding is large, but possible. But there will always be ONE optimal build, be it 1% or even greater of a difference from the other builds. The playstyle, utility, and dps of a spec can vary based on fights, raid composition, gearing, and RNG elements.
Now it ultimately comes down to why you play your mage. Do you play your mage to stay on the cutting edge? Do you play your mage to experiment with different specializations? A popular reason is that mages are the top dps of the month because of 'this' spec, but these are the kind of people that need to fill their raid spots because of the situations they're in. Those of use who have the leisure to play their mage's favorite specializations should do so because the opinions of others might not apply to them.
tl;dr
All mage specializations are no longer what they were in Vanilla WoW with LOL WAND TALENTS. Instead, Blizzard has done a fantastic job making all of the mage specializations viable, even though one will always be OPTIMAL. So when you have the choice in what talent spec you want to play in, value that freedom and play how you want to.
Post by
752192
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Articulatemis
I feel like everything I wrote has been lost on you khrispee. I am stating that Arcane spec CAN adequately assist a raid pass a specific encounter, and that you can have fun to play what you want while still being more than competent. There are multiple arcane mages in my guild, including myself, that have always pulled our own weight in every fight. The thing about an optimal specialization compared to the others, is that it assumes that these specs are being played optimally. Most people don't, because they might not know the subtleties of their class, or have the knowledge of HOW to play the spec to the best of its abilities (not even necessarily mechanics wise). Even lag will put a barrier between you and optimal gameplay, which is especially true for Arcane spec since there are absolutely no dots involved and hitting every global cooldown is essential.
Arcane has the potential to be a great dps spec, if not the best when played optimally compared to others. Isn't it possible that you personally, or maybe other people you know, aren't playing arcane to the best of its ability, or using utilizing every tool at its disposal as efficiently as possible? It seems to me that this is the case, since you put "I really enjoy casting Arcane Blast..." as if hitting the buttons on your keyboard constitutes what the whole game is. It's not.
Post by
752192
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Frox
Back onto the topic of "Thoughts/Advice on Arcane for newer players". Lets get the simple stuff out of the way first.
Pros
Arcane brings
Arcane Tactics
where only BM Hunters and Ret Paladins can bring that buff otherwise.
Focus Magic
Cons
Has mana issues sustaining high dps.
Arcane also has the poorest AoE out of the two other specs.
Arcane is the least mobile of the three specializations.
In the most Arcane biased fights, Frost and Fire still out dps it (Although by a small margin)
For new players that want to know what they're getting into while playing arcane. Frost has better burst, Fire has better AoE and single target dps. What Blizzard should do is fix its single target dps to help it stay competitive at this tier. The best way would be to fix its mana problems, but that's just one issue thats prevalent. The numbers have been done and on a zero movement fight, Arcane places under the rest of the specs; this wouldn't be so bad if every single raid fight in Cataclysm didn't have required movement for raid success, this exacerbates the problem and causes Arcane to really fall off the charts.
REGARDLESS
, Arcane itself is still a unique spec and it can still dps raid bosses. For those who find themselves with a dual spec they have unused, have farmed content they want to experiment on, or just want to explore all the possibilities of the mage class, the arcane specialization is there. Play at your leisure and for your enjoyment if you find arcane fun. You just want to look towards the other specs if you want to push your mage farther for the raid or other reasons.
Post by
752192
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Frox
I haven't run a lot of tests but I'm not sure Arcane Explosion is a solid choice...not to mention I don't think it is the most mana efficient of spells (correct me if I'm wrong).
Just checked in game. Flamestrike is about twice the cost of AE, Blizzard is the least MPS, assuming you get the full cast. The mana isn't that bad, since Arcane runs mage armor, while a fire mage spamming Flamestrike would go oom faster. The damage is still pretty terrible though.
So if Arcane wanted to AoE at distance at all, they'll probably need Arcane Power with Blizzard to even be decent dps.
Post by
Articulatemis
While I certainly don't feel qualified to write a tell-all on the arcane spec, I would be more than happy to share the knowledge that I've gained on the subject. I didn't do this before, because that wasn't the point. I was simply offering a different perspective on the matter, rather than the "pick this spec, not that one" kind of response to the newer player base who might have had questions. I never said anything about being ahead of the "power curve", only that players may be better at one thing than the other, but still discount the other as inferior which i believe to be wrong. As for pulling our own weight, I meant compared to all other dps in the raid, where we consistently score from the middle to the upper echelons of the overall dps, around 14k-17k. In a five man setting, its around 12k-13k dps. Though not the tip top of numbers by far, I would hardly count that as mediocre. We're not the most geared characters out of our guild either. Anyways, I'll try to relate my experience in way that not only shows what to do, but why it makes sense to do so for the benefit of the newer players. This will be more focused on doing damage than anything else, and will begin with the basics.
Arcane Mage PvE: Preparation
Before we begin discussing what to do during an encounter, and the flow of combat, we want to make sure we are prepared by having the necessary tools. This is my personal spec for your benefit:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ohIrMRhorRRofZc:s0V0Mk0om
While I don't exactly know whether or not this is optimal for dps, I am quite certain it is at least close, based on what makes sense to me. Some talents, such as piercing ice or missile barrage, are obvious in how they contribute to your overall dps. Talents such as arcane concentration or master of elements are a bit more nuanced in their impact on damage, but they are still there because of one important consideration: Mastery. Back in wrath, if you were able to cast freely standing still, it was always ABx4 -> Arcane Missiles, repeat, because the arcane missiles got the benefit of increased arcane damage from arcane blast stacks, and burning mana had no consequence (besides not having enough to cast). This is no longer the case. Mastery added a whole new element to arcane gameplay, that of rewarding mana efficiency. I am still surprised to see so many people complain about arcane mana efficiency and go further on to criticize its damage potential. In truth, it's pretty easy to stay near 100% mana an entire fight while dealing decent damage, but many people seem to be stuck in spell rotation habits from wrath, that of spamming AB. I'll talk about choosing the right spells in a given situation in a later part of this post.
The next immediate consideration to have after setting up a spec is gear and distributing stats. Working with what you have, you should always prioritize int and spell power first, followed by capping hit as appropriate to the situation (6% for heroics, 17% for raid bosses). As stated in an earlier post, arcane spec has literally no dots to speak of (unless you count flame orb), so haste is essential in increasing dps by lowering cast times and the global cooldown. However, haste only increases your dps and not mana efficiency as it does not increase the damage of your spells, so only focusing on haste may hurt you in the long run. This is where mastery comes in. Mana adept is very true to its name. As long as you can manage your mana, you'll be able to retain what I would call a significant bonus to your damage. It should be noted that haste and mastery work in concert with one another, with both benefiting greatly from spell power, and for that reason I would choose to weigh those two stats equally, keeping their values close to one another. That leaves crit last, although I wouldn't gimp that stat too hard either.
Arcane Mage PvE: The First Step
Before ever hitting a spell, it's important to recognize what situation you're in so that you can respond accordingly. There is one key element during combat that you should keep in mind at all times: Can I stand still, or do I need to be mobile? Although it pertains more to survivability, standing and consequently dying in a fire while you're casting means you can no longer contribute to the fight, making it very relevant. All ranged dps classes will always prefer to do damage while standing still rather than while being mobile. With that in mind, its important for you to learn encounters in a way that allows you to recognize when openings appear for you to stand still and do the most damage. The ability to capitalize on these openings and to minimize the penalties from moving can help to offset some of the limitations to the arcane spec, such as limited AE utility or mobile dps mentioned above. If an encounter requires you to move out of static AoE to survive, then using a gcd on blink and resuming casting is much more efficient than dealing damage on the move to get out of it. If it requires you to simply be moving for an extended amount of time, try to gauge if you have a few seconds to cast without consequence before having to move again. If not, then you will have to use instants and the like on the move, but you should at least always benefit from mastery if this is the case.
Arcane Mage PvE: Dealing Direct Damage
Dealing damage resolves around mana management more than anything else. There is a common misconception that strong burst damage equates to high sustained dps, but that is untrue especially for arcane mages. Think of it this way: Your mana bar is a buff of sorts, ranging from 0% additional spell damage to whatever your mastery cap is at max mana. If you're constantly spamming arcane blast at four stacks and burning mana, you're also burning away your damage bonus. It comes to the point where a four stacked arcane blast cast at low mana will equate to less damage, and possibly less dps (factoring in the haste bonus of four stacks), over a three stacked arcane blast (maybe two depending on how much mastery you have.) Most of the time you will want to remain at max mana by centering your damage around the arcane barrage cooldown, to benefit from mastery. This means that in your mana efficiency phase, you should never have over two stacks of arcane blast on you at any time, hitting arcane missiles and arcane barrage whenever it's available without interrupting what you're currently casting. Try to queue these spells up in your head, and remember to hit the hotkey for the next spell 7/8 of the way or so (depending on cast time) into your current cast, to account for lag. If there is an opening for you to stand still and cast for a time, then ideally you would have a continuous flow to your rotation without any breaks in between. The only time I would interrupt spellcasting when there's an opening available is to cast counterspell. Whenever somebody asks what a certain interruptable spell does, I'll respond jokingly with "Oh, well what that actually does is give me 12% damage for 10 seconds" (The description in the actual talent tree is wrong). Counterspelling and interrupts in general have been important since classic WoW, but a lot of times I'll see mobs just cast freely in parties with interrupters. Well, if helping the healer out wasn't enough motivation for you to counterspell, then invocation should definitely get you going. I use counterspell every chance i get to gain what is essentially a flat bonus to my mana bar buff. The loss of dps from interrupting my current cast to interrupt is well worth it i think.
In contrast with the mana efficiency phase, there is also a burn phase. The burn phase consists of hitting all of your cooldowns and only then is it appropriate to be spamming arcane blast at four stacks. Ideally while under burn phase, you should have the benefit of a full mana bar buff, arcane power, mirror images (that don't trigger the gbc with the AP glyph and macro'd together), invocation, improved mana gem, and bloodlust/timewarp/etc. This is what I would do specifically in a burn phase during most given boss fights that allow you to cast freely in the beginning: Time warp first if appropriate, spam arcane blast to four stacks, use your mana gem to get back up to 100% mana, PoM + arcane blast (to benefit from imp mana gem), arcane power/mirror image, cast arcane blast and arcane missiles when available to slowly deplete your mana down to to 40% of max, counterspell whenever you can, and when 1-3 seconds are left remaining on time warp, evocate to return to full and transition back into mana efficiency phase. The hard part is timing the mana depletion down to 40% exactly before time warp is about to end. If no time warp is available, then simply spam arcane blast in the 15 seconds that arcane power is up before evocating. Knowing when to enter burn phase and when to enter mana efficiency phase is a key element to playing arcane.
Arcane Mage PvE: AoE and Mobility
I would not disagree that AE utility and mobile dps are areas in which arcane dps may lag behind the other specs a little, but its hardly enough to call arcane nonviable. Its not impossible to minimize these limitations either. If you know that an encounter requires you to be mobile constantly for a long period of time, or that you will need to do AoE damage, then its essential for you to retain the bonus from your mastery by having maximum mana in your mana efficiency phase (which you should be doing anyways). Personally, I'm at 22% additional damage at max mana with my current mastery rating, which was not at all hard to obtain. That closes the distance between my mastery bonus, and the other tree's passive specialization damage bonus pretty decently, to where the difference isn't so noticeable. What this means is that I'm able to use every tool at my disposal effectively, which I do. I rarely have to constantly be on the move so much that an arcane barrage followed by a fire blast and a couple of ice lances won't be enough time for me to be still again, even for a little while. If it does, then i center the rotation on the arcane barrage cooldown, such as in mana efficiency phase, hitting fire blast when its up, and ice lance spamming if both are down.
As for AoE, I cast flame strike first, to benefit from its dot, and then arcane explosion spam (which still allows me to benefit from a near full mana bar buff with the mage armor glyph). There is no need to waste an arcane power cooldown and blizzard, even if it is imperative that you avoid being hit in melee. If such is the case, then i begin with flamestrike, cone of cold to slow, and kite adds with arcane explosion, staying 8-10 yards away. When cone of cold runs out, i would frost nova if they are rootable, flamestrike, cone of cold and begin anew, or if not rootable or frost nova is on cooldown, I'll blink away and run when the slow is about to end, until cone of cold is up again. In a worst case scenario, I would just iceblock until they change targets (I doubt I'd be the only one AoEing). Really, the constraints placed upon arcane spec isn't so dramatic as to disregard it completely.
Arcane Mage PvE: Conclusion
These are just a few tips I have to offer on playing an arcane mage based on my personal experience. I hope that more than a few newer players at least have found this helpful, but critics of the arcane spec should realize that learning what to do doesn't mean you automatically know how to apply the knowledge even close to optimally. That, as with most other instances, requires a lot of time and patience to discover on your own, until you gain an intimate familiarity with the playstyle. Critics should also read the whole of my posts before coming to a conclusion, but that's not really up to me. I wanted to avoid writing another wall of text post, but since it was requested that I offer my insight, here it is.
Post by
Jeremypwnz
I read the arcane thread on EJ for it, couldn't find the info I need. What I need to know is, are there any soft caps for haste, or other stats? I know Fire has a 4.5% haste soft cap. Only thing I know about Arcane is (Int>Hit>Haste>Mastery>Crit), or something like that. Please correct if I'm wrong.
I have about 5.6k Spell Power, ~1350 haste, ~1150 Mastery, and ~13% Crit self-buffed (Hit-capped for heroics). But I'm doing a mediocre 9-11k dps on most heroic bosses. Hopefully, the reduced mana costs for AB help out enough to burn longer.
Post by
752192
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
greywolfsage
Everything I have read indicates no soft cap for Haste in Arcane.
Maybe its not Soft Cap, but Benchmark? But then again, the benchmarks were against "Pushing the Limit" of T10 gear...
Post by
Articulatemis
Honestly, I know its a long post, but if you spent the maybe three minutes it would've taken to read the guide above jeremypwnz's question, you could see the answers are right there. There's no shortcut to learning, so try to have just a tiny bit of patience. Damn.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.