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Pyroblast in PvE rotation
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Post by
779055
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Post by
delani
I'm pretty certain the DoT from pyroblast wouldn't proc hot streak, but if you hard cast pyroblast itself, that would give you a chance to proc pryoblast!(with!) due to the way they reworked the talent.
I'd like to see the numbers that show pyroblast > fireball for DPS, as you can get fireball down to under 2 second cast times, and pyroblast (at equal haste) is still about 2.8 seconds.
The only time I know of where hard casting pyroblast is worth it, is during the beginning of the pull, while your tank is counting down. Then hard cast a pyroblast, throw up LB, and fireball to your hearts content.
If your having issues keeping the pyroblast DoT up and and you took improved fire blast, try a 4:1 scorch:fire blast movement rotation, instead of pure scorch spam. The added critical chance from fire blast basically ups your damage by a hair, but it improves your overall crit by about 1.6%, and its in the same time frames. This will lead to higher hot streaks due to the fact you are critting more often. Of course keep living bomb up while moving, and it really depends on the fight mechanic on how often your actually going to be moving, but it is a damage/DPS/crit gain to weave in fire blasts between your scorches as long as you got improved fire blast.
Post by
779055
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Post by
delani
i got 800+ mastery 500+ haste assume i got 5tick dot in raid.
fireball hit 10k no crit
pryoblast 12k no crit 5tick dot 1.3k ea=12k+5*1.3k=18.5
10k/2.5=4kdps
18.5k/3.5=5.285kdps
4*3.5=14<12k+1.3*2=14.6
so i think effectively your dps increase every cast of pyroblast if it can tick twice before you cast another pyroblast through hot steak which is in the next 6sec.
at 500 haste, fireball won't be casting in 2.5 seconds, it'll be closer to 2.36 seconds (assuming no other haste values, fireball in a raid is actually closer to 2 seconds
Pyroblast won't be casting in 3.5 seconds either, it'll be able 3.3, which in a raid is probably closer to 3 seconds, maybe 2.9. The Dot however takes 12 seconds to completely run its course, so your mather is more like this:
10k damage from fireball/ 2 second cast=5k DPS
18.5k damage from pyroblast + damage from the full DoT/14.9 seconds for the pyroblast cast and 12 seconds for the DoT to run its course = 1.2k DPS.
Pyroblast's damage isn't from the DoT, its from the fact you really only cast it when its instant cast, and it hits like a Mack truck. The DoT really doesn't do a whole lot for you except gain a little bonus from your mastery, and helps combustion to more damage. But even the folks over at EJ is saying pyroblast DoT is accounting for about 5% of the combustion damage, where ignite and living bomb are the other 95%.
Your effective DPS increases because pyroblast is instant, and the DoT is just extra damage thats coming from it. 14k damage for 1 Global cooldown is an amazing DPS increase, especially if it crits.
Post by
779055
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Post by
delani
While the DoT from pyroblast is about 37% of its damage, if you clip that DoT, it doesn't have a negative effect on your DPS, as the burst from the pyroblast itself is what matters. If your waiting for the DoT to run its course before you cast another pyroblast then your will suffer a DPS lose, as 5 instant pyroblast bursts > the DoT damage from 1 pyroblast.
DPS is average damage done per second, so if you do 12,000 damage in 3.5 seconds, then do another 1.3k every 2.4 seconds for 12 seconds, then your total DPS from start to finish is (12k + )1.3k*5))/15.5 seconds, or about 1.19k DPS total.
Living bomb does its damage over 12 seconds, then explodes. The reason why its a DPS increase is because it only takes 1 GCD every 12 seconds. Fire Orb is the same way, it deals a set amount of damage every second for 15 seconds, (thus a massive DPS increase for those 15 seconds)
But its not worth letting the DoT from pyroblast go its full durations if you get a hot streak proc before the DoT expires, or else you'll lower your DPS.
Ignite and Living bomb benefit combustion the most, as per
this
link. Just waiting for a large ignite and forgoing living bomb your going to suffer about 25% lose in DPS. Where if you forgo the pyroblast DoT, your only using 8.8% lose in DPS.
Post by
779055
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
delani
>So is it advisable to cast pyro(no!) in place of a fireball when mob is clear from pyro dot?
What i said is that you hard cast a pyro when there is no pyro dot and contiune with fireball assume you dont procs hot steak in the next 12sec doesnt that also make pyro due a higher dps than fireball over 12sec like living bomb? Like I said before as long as it can get 2tick from pyroblast before hot steak procs it probably will be a dps increase, with current gear i wouldnt be surprise if your hot steak dont procs for 30sec.
It really depends. lets take a 28 seconds time frame, and assume pyroblast will hit for 12k, and its dot will do 1.2k every 2.4 seconds, and that fireball will hit for 10k.
During that 28 seconds duration, you can do 14 fireball casts, at 2 second cast times, for a total of 140k damage/28 seconds = 5k DPS
in that same 28 seconds, you can do 10 pyroblast casts, for a total of 120k damage. Now, as your casting a pyroblast every 2.8 seconds, and a DoT takes 2.4secs, you getting about 10 DoTs through that duration (no DoT until after the first cast) for a total of 13k extra DPS. So you looking at 133k Damage/28 seconds, or 4.75k DPS.
Now, mix and matching every 12 seconds means you'll have 2 pyro blasts, and 11 fireballs during that same 28 seconds, so thats 10 ticks for 1.3k DPS, 2 pyroblasts for 12k, and 11 fireballs at 10k each, for a total of 147k damage during 28 seconds or about 5.25k DPS.
Its a small increase, in a short time frame, so it may be worth it, especially if you have the mana to spare, and you hard cast pyroblast to keep up critical mass instead of using scorch for it. But the additional mana cost may not balance out, and you'll run outta mana much faster rotating in hard casted pyroblasts instead of just fireball spam, and relying on hot streak to keep your DoTs active.
Post by
779055
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
delani
5.25k vs 5k isnt that like a 5% dps increase without any talent and gear change not worth it? Probably less increase because there is still hot steak procs but this is a rotation for whole fight not short time frame..
Not talking about the up coming patch pyroblast cast 1%more base mana than fireball now doing 85%more dmg and 20%more if you spam it why the mana cost may not balance out?
The reason why you'll burn so much mana is because
Pyroblast
costs so much mana, 17% of base mana, where fireball costs only 12% base mana (due to the hotfix). So for that added 5% more mana, you might get 5% more damage, but fireball just does more in a faster time, especially when you factor in hot streak procs.
Post by
779055
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
storyr
Dont know how you get the result thinking that upcoming patch FB is 12%. 14FB=14*12=168%base mana, 11FB 2pyro=11*12+17*2=166%base mana 5%more dmg 2%less base mana.
Live now it probably will be more since FB is 16%base mana. 3 extra FB=12% more i think
So actually by latest patch note FB will be 9% base mana which can justify what you said but i feel mana will not be a problem anymore having our main spell cost get a 50% discount.
Fireball is not 16% base mana as indicated by the tooltip, 12% base mana was hot fixed over a week ago. On the PTR fireball is 9% of base mana.
Post by
779055
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