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Hamstring weak?
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Post by
Xuan
Ok, so this
is
whine, QQ or whatever you prefer to call it, but I'll try to keep the amount of tears to a minimum. Hamstring seems weak compared to other melee-class, which is the classes we should compare ourselves to, as warriors.
Hamstring
requires you to be in melee-range slowes 50%, costs 10(down to 7 with pvp-gloves) rage and a GCD. It cannot be dispelled. Other melees have similar abilities:
- Rogue:
Cripling poison
: Requires you to be in melee-range, slowes 70%, costs nothing in form of resources and no GCD(as it is applied passively).
Combat rogues even have a talent that gives them another slow through a talent(
Blade Twisting
). Cripling poison can be dispelled, Blade Twisting cannot.
- DK:
Desecration
(unholy tier 2 talent and thus available to all DKs who wants it): Requires you to be in melee-range and use one of your strikes, slowes 50% within the desecrated area, costs no resources and costs no GCDs as it is applied passively through the strikes. Cannot be dispelled.
Chains of Ice
: Range from 20 to 30 yrds depending on talents. Slowes 60%, costs one frost rune and a GCD, applies frost fever and generates runic power for the DK. Cannot be dispelled. Chillblains aren't really comparable to hamstring, so I'll leave it out of this.
- Feral Druid:
Infected Wounds
(talent): Requires you to be in melee-range and use one of your combopoint builders(excluding rake). Costs nothing in form of resources and no GCD(passive apply). Cannot be dispelled. Furthermore the talent gives the target of infected wounds a debuff, reducing their attack speed by 20%.
I'll leave out Enhancement Shaman and Retribution Paladins, since their entire classdesign is way different and not directly comparable to warriors(or rogues, DKs and ferals), as I see it. Feel free to disagree on that.
The other classes have "free" passive snares, that in all ways are cheaper(no resources needed), faster(no GCD-cost), more reliable(cannot be dodged or parried) and are simply better(20% more slow for rogues, groundeffect that pillarhumpers run into again on 2nd lap for DKs and basicly a demo-shout on top of the snare for ferals). I feel that warriors are limited by being forced to use a GCD every 8 second on keeping the target snared, where the comparable classes can use that same GCD and the resources for pure pressure or whatever they choose to. And thats not even accounting for the numerous times, I've seen a priest dodge my hamstring(WTF? Stack expertise, should I? Sure - I have to, I guess).
TL:DR: Hamstring sucks in its current form. Passive snare like my comparable classes are the only way to deal with it, Blizz. Since the patch(intercept gone and all), I feel like I waste too much "time on target" applying and reapplying hamstring and not putting out pressure. Is it just me?
Thanks for not commenting poor grammar, spelling errors, etc. English is not my preferred language, as you can see.
Post by
138583
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Post by
Xuan
True, I am clueless. I thought DKs wanted to use Scourge strike, plague strike or necrotic strike when they were in melee-range. I thought rogues had two relatively fast weapons and liked to swing them at their target in melee-range, causing the poison to be applied with relatively high reliability. I thought infected wounds was a physical effect... I'm clearly a retard, forgive me for wasting your time with my cluelessness.
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536062
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Post by
367590
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Post by
Xuan
I'd also throw in there that with talents you can apply a second stack of hamstring on a target and completely root them.
Correct. Improved hamstring is very usefull, but it does require the warrior to dish out another GCD to apply it, within the 8 second window of the first hamstring. And it does have a internal CD of 30 seconds(if specced with 2 talentpoints). Im not complaining about that, just saying its not free.
Post by
Xuan
You missed enhance shams who basically have a poison like weapon magic imbue for slowing. As well as a 30yd stacking snare and root and 40 yd range snare and a nice snare totem that simultaneously removes snares from the shaman.
But yeah warrior's snares are weak sauce compared to the other classes who basically just auto apply while they use their damaging abilities. The whole 8 second snare normalization wasn't really much of a nerf to any melee class, except for warriors which sucks.
First thing first; I
did
mention both Enhancement and Retri and that I didn't wanna compare hamstring with their abilities cos they are simply completely different mechanics due to resource- and classdesign.
But atleast you agree with me, that we(warriors) got hit very hard by the patch. A lot of reasonable people agree on that, but most people seem to think that the DR on charge/throwdown was the big one, some people think it was the removal of intercept and others think its the "lost burst" that was the worst. Personally, I think it was the standard nerf to snares, that hit the hardest, because it hit warriors much much harder than any other comparable class. And that is why I made my post.
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Post by
Xuan
Hamstring is the clear winner of the "Worst Snare Ever" award.
Curse of Exhaustion now probably takes that spot. -30% Speed, weakest class snare in game. Takes the place of another Curse, and is dispellable.
True, CoEx is downright horrible now with the weak snare, the possibility to be dispelled and the fact that it takes the curse-spot. What needs to be said, though, is that curses are considered utility now, and the spot that CoEx takes, can only be used for other curses, which are; Tongues(longer casttime), Elements(more magicdmg taken) and Weakness(less physical dmg done and rage/energy-generation). Agony and Doom are now "banes" and can be applied regardless of which curse is used. Anyhow, I totally agree that CoEx looks really weak now. How it works out in reality in PvP-situations, I cannot comment on. My Lock is lvl 80 and I haven't had the time to do anything with her yet(because I really enjoy being on the receiving end of the curses and drainlife-spam on my warrior) :)
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