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New to tanking, simple questions
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Post by
155610
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nicko91
Most of the guides are for max level tanks which means that they will have the
talent which lets them use charge in defensive stance. You always want to use defensive stance when tanking read the tooltip as to why.
Post by
Arideni
I'm not keen on the whole rotations thing, not sure there are such things as rotations at this point anymore, but one thing is for sure --
Vanguard
.
While I'm also not sure about the new talent trees, check out
.
Charging may also be a bad idea if there are other creatures nearby. In an instance such as this, it might be wiser to pull them creatures away with a throw, etc. and then use Charge to close the gap...or Thunder Clap / Shockwave, whatever is available to you.
Post by
155610
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jakesterwars
Rotation or use of Charge depends on what's around you, what CC is being used, etc.
My typical rotation includes: Commanding Shout (because it's the start of a pull :P) Charge, Rend, TC, Shield Block, Shield Slam, Inner Rage (if multiple mobs), HS/Cleave, Devastate x3, Shield Slam procs, etc. Rinse and Repeat.
This can be jumbled around with procs or fight mechanics, but that's the basic rotation for good threat.
Post by
786742
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Arideni
Exactly. Rotations can be made for single-target mobs, but ideally you're going for whatever the situation requires. You can get into a rotation doing just about anything...but sometimes you want to stay out of a rotation, too--for the simple fact that means you've trained yourself to do one routine and if something breaks that routine, what shall you do next? Just stay on your toes and get some experience--think you'll be fine in the end. Oh, and stick around here :p
Post by
155610
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HatchetChild
another question
i'm having a hard time getting aggro when we're using CC.
for example, mage does a sheep pull, all aggro is on him, whats the quickest way to get everyone?
Stand on the mage, Then thunderclap (Provided you have rage, if not pop a shout)
Then continue as normal with the AoE tanking 'rotation'
Post by
Jeremypwnz
I have a question that seemed to get more relevant in the Cata content. I just started to tank Cata instances. Level 81 right now, and I'm having trouble with pulls where we CC a healer, and there's a caster near. I would like to be able to just charge in with the usual AOE abilities, Rend TC then spamming stuff I see fit. But I want to pull a different caster away from the group. Long story short, is
Gag Order
the only way I can do this? Sometimes I would ask a DK or a mage to silence or grip the mob over but to no avail, they don't usually want to.
Also, for 85 heroics, is there a certain level of stats I need for say, Mastery? Dodge? Parry? Block? All I know, people say get to about 333 ilvl before starting heroics to ease stress on healer and what not. Mastery > Dodge/Parry > Other. Just wondering, if it's just reforging to that order and about 333, okay, thanks anyways. :D
Post by
Porcell
If there is only one healer in the group you might as well target it first and kill it.
To answer your question, gag order can help, but there are other ways to deal with it. One is just to pull normally and pop spell reflect. The caster will stand there, bounce a spell off you and give you a decent amount of threat. You can thus ranged tank the caster by popping spell reflect when it comes up. You can also charge and shield bash it then try and kite it away a little bit, but that can be difficult sometimes because of the daze on shield bash.
Post by
570342
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
About gemming&stuff, my very own priority list is:
mastery - stamina - parry - hit - expertise (I generete very low threat with 13 expertise) - block - strenght - self healing - agility - intellect - spirit - dodge
Why dodge as last? Simply: dodgind doesnt provide us any more rage. And since rage generation rules have also been changed, rage starving is MUCH way easier nowadays (even at high 85s). Whenever I find dodge, I dump it into mastery-parry-hit. My own tanking gear uses higher stamina to overcome the lack of dodge; I'm pretty old-school on this topic!
Sorry for the lenght =P I could make a short guide out of this XD
Fixed. You skip dodge, place dodge lowest on priority, value high stamina because you are "old school" about it?
Your ramblings about skills and talents are decent enough, but your gemming and reforging advice is horrible.
Post by
570342
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
falcov
It's just I still have to find something that makes me change my mind.. And I pretty often found myself rage starving before I took my decision.. And tbh sometimes that still happens.
Nah, dodge just doesnt fit me =P
If rage is that much of an issue for you, you need to:
a) pick up shield spec
b) shield block more (and/or spec into shield mastery & heavy repurcussions)
c) heroic strike/cleave/inner rage less
d) charge more
Yeah, I'll agree with you that when I don't get the initial charge off it's very hard for me to have enough rage to keep mobs on me for the first few seconds.. But usually shield block + shout will give me enough rage to get off that initial thunderclap which kinda glues trash to me until I get a steady stream of rage. Of course, I don't see how having more expertise and less avoidance stats would actually help fix that problem either.
My warrior has 4 expertise and 0.58% hit (according to the armory) in his tank gear/spec and assuming the DPS doesn't pull threat off me in the first few seconds of the pull, they're mine for the duration. I have significantly more parry than dodge (which is fine for me because of Hold the Line), but the only thing I really do on my gear is reforge hit/expertise to Mastery (or parry if Mastery is already on the gear in question).. and you're saying you reforge dodge to expertise? Heh, I guess I see what you mean.. that's the first time I've looked at the 'melee' tab while my warrior was in his prot gear.. 0.58% seems abysmally low.. but same as you, I've had very few issues with rage so I don't see myself changing my gemming/reforging strategy yet.
Post by
570342
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Post by
falcov
Well, this is my spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LMbZcZcfGdRRRdbu:0oV0cskMz
Seems like the main differences between our specs is the fact you picked up Impending Victory and I picked up War Academy and Deep Wounds. Yeah, I did have a little bit more trouble keeping aggro (especially on trash) before Deep Wounds. It definitely helps a good deal.. I don't know if I like War Academy, but it doesn't hurt my single target TPS so I guess I don't hate it too much.
Here's my toon for reference:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightninghoof/masanori/simple
And my numbers:
151k health, 37038 armor, 7.21% dodge, 12.65% parry, 50.22% block (19.84 mast), 5.29% hit and 18 expertise.
Gemmed all Puissant Dream Emerald but Guardian's Demonseye (changable into Defender's) along with Austere Shadowspirit Diamond into my Setesh Helm hc (red socket +45 stam).
Actual trinkets: lifeblood alchemist stone and Heart of Thunder hc, recently swapped from Leaden of Despair hc; soon probably going for Throngus's Finger hc, meanwhile buildign up for mirror of broken images.. And ofc I keep them all and switch them depending on what the situation needs.
Yeah, I mostly go with Mastery unless there's a a particularly good socket bonus to go for (like the 30 stam socket bonus on my legs e.g). Unfortunately I've been really unlucky with drops so most of the reforging I've done is going crit/haste -> parry since I seem to have better luck getting DPS mastery gear to drop than tanking mastery gear. ;/
Now if I could get Porcelain Crab to drop off Throne of the Tides to replace that 316 trinket.. I'd be done with heroics as far as my tank gear goes.
Considering I charge everytime the ability is off the cd, or intercept when I have excess rage, shout when I cant charge, dont heroic strike nor inner rage while tanking, open 70% of fights with shield block becouse, as previously stated, I costantly charge (shield wall or last stand are the remaining 30%), the only right hint you are giving me might be "cleave less".. And ofc I will take that in consideration =)
Even then, when I say Cleave less I don't really even follow that advice myself if I'm tanking more than one mob. Rage always feels abundant after the first few seconds of pulling a trash pack.
But that's my own style..
@falcov: tbh I'm curious to see how you actualy hold aggro off boss or packs without any hit or expertise at all (I talk about hcs).. I dont think u can rely on blood&thunder only, unless you also add deep wounds and some luck!
I guess you've found out my secret. ;) Yeah, I did pick up Deep Wounds.. I also didn't pick up Impending Victory or Vigilance. Vigilance is really only useful for raids these days (for stacking Vengeance more quickly by putting it on the other tank).. and when I had Impending Victory I very rarely actually saw it proc enough to actually use it in a heroic. Battle Trance also seems like somewhat of a waste of points IMO.
I don't think my "rotation" is really any different from anyone else's though. I charge-> Rend -> thunderclap -> shockwave -> (wait a second or two) -> shield block -> thunderclap -> cleave -> shield slam -> etc. Thunderclap every 6-8s, Shockwave if I remember.. but after that initial shockwave I usually hold aoe aggro with cleave and thunderclap. I also do single target by tab targetting and devastate/shield slam when Thunderclap is on CD.
I guess ultimately whatever works for you, works for you. Your avoidance stats don't seem to be too terribly bad depending on what kind of content you're working on (just fine for heroics).
Post by
570342
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
falcov
The one nice thing about Deep Wounds and tanking is that even though I have a ~2% chance to crit on in my tank set/spec, I have enough rage that I become GCD-starved before I get rage starved. This means that between Cleave, Shockwave and Thunderclap, I get enough crits to have most of the mobs afflicted w/ Deep Wounds what seems like entirely through the pull. That means that between Blood and Thunder and Deep Wounds.. I have a lot of DoT damage going on even when I'm not focusing on that mob.
Just what has worked for me in terms of holding aggro. :)
About rotation.. There's no solid one, as you said, whatever works for you, works for you! =P De gustibus non discutendum est!
Yeah, I don't really like saying "rotation" but that's kinda what I end up doing during trash pulls.
Allow me 2 words bout your trinket: I prefer
Throngus's Finger
's total avoidance over the
Porcelain Crab
, altho the latter has a easier proc and chunk of mastery > all. But that's my own flavor =)
I wouldn't mind either in all honesty. ;) I was running w/ the regular Leaden Despair until earlier today when
Heart of Thunder
dropped and while it's no where near the trinket I wanted.. I'd rather run w/ some extra armor than two stam trinkets anyway. As a warrior w/ Hold the Line.. I wouldn't complain about Throngus' by any means.
I was lucky on my Blood DK who ran w/ both Throngus' and the Crab until she got the stam trinket from Magmaw.
What's the worgen like as warrior? I'm horde but I like try different gamestyles, so I'll definitively try that aswell sooner or later!
I'm enjoying it so far. This warrior is actually a faction xfer from what used to be an undead warrior. ;p I don't really use Darkflight cept for after a wipe in a dungeon, and his racial passive really only helps him when he's DPSing. Although I guess that's another good reason for me to have specced into Deep Wounds. ;p that 1% crit basically doubles what my innate crit% would have been!
TBH I haven't raided TOO much on this warrior, as he's only been raid ready for about a week now and my work schedule doesn't really coincide with my guild's raiding schedule. Even though I was planning on having him MS Arms and OS tank, it seems for my guild I'll mostly be raiding as a tank.. which I don't mind at all. We'll see how my TPS handles
I've had it kind of in the back of my head to figure out some way to fit Incite in my build to help a bit w/ boss tanking, but can't see how to keep all the talents I REALLY want and take it. At first I thought War Academy would have been an easy talent to get rid of, but then I realized I'd need at least 1 point to get to Deep Wounds..
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