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Neutral AH Sniping.
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Post by
Thandion
@ tuckmuck, Fleshreaper, & Thandion
I honestly find it hard to believe you are missing the point....but you are missing the point.
Yes, it is true that buying items in the N-AH is "not against the rules", and that "anyone can buy it", or that it "is there for anyone to come along and purchase".
While all those statements are completely true, camping and scanning the N-AH for items that were put there by someone for no other reason but to transfer them across factions, and buying them for a mere fraction of their true value is not....."OK". It is, as I posted before, stealing...only doing it within the very loosely written rules that Blizz has that govern the N-AH.
The issue as I stated it, is not about breaking any rules, it is about morality, and when dealing with Blizz, who can and will take action on you with or without cause, you had better hope that you don't get a GM involved that has a solid moral foundation, or you could end up paying alot more for that vanity pet than 1c.
The fact that you would label it stealing is quite sad, in all honesty.
The Auction House is an open market. When you list an item on any of them, you have the right to dictate a selling price, and you have the right to cancel an auction if the buyer doesn't meet your price, and you would rather lose the listing fee than take a hit. Thats it. You can't list it deliberately at a low price, then go crying to a GM if someone buys it for the price you listed it at! I don't care what reasons anyone has for posting an item on the Neutral Auction House, as soon as it is posted on there, it is fair game to anyone who happens to be on there at the time.
I should point out that I do not go onto the Neutral Auction Houses myself. I use auctioneer on the faction auction houses, and thats it. If someone is using bots to buy stuff up at cheap prices, then yes that is wrong, but if it is a flesh and blood player doing it? Tough luck, as far as I'm concerned. If someone doesn't like the idea that a player may come in and snag an item they were saving for themselves, then stop trying to transfer items cross faction via the neutral AH, because if you get caught out doing it, then its your own daft fault, nobody elses.
Post by
298296
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fleshreaper
You are right about this one. You don't own the node until you have extracted the ore from it. BUT, someone does own the item in the N-AH. It wasn't put there for you to buy, it was put there for them to transfer.
Right here is "your" problem. YOU are trying to GAME the system. The N AH is not ment for you to transfer items between your own toons on different factions. If it was, Blizzard would let you buy your own item and lock it so no one else could buy it. You talk about morals and yet you are intentionally trying to do something that is not ment to be done. You talk about guild vault ninjas and nod ninjas and what not, they are gaming the system, you are gaming the system. You are = ninja. Blizzard was nice enough to let us have this option and as a trade off, we have to accept the risk that comes with it. I have had people buy my 5c item off before a friend could buy it, more than once. Some times I have gotten it back and some time the player has tried to sell it back for more gold then it's worth. When you gamble, some times you win and some times you lose.
Post by
lonewarrior
It's a classless act no matter how you try to spin it.
Um... what? How is it any different from playing the normal auction house?
At least no one will ever go on tradechat and call me a scumbag and as sure as the sun shines
I have never seen this happen, in all 5 years of playing WoW.
Never. Once.
I'm not going to be their conscious.
Good, because it appears you are malfunctioning.
The normal AH isn't being used to transfer items..duh O.o
Go snipe something then and see what the response is.
Yep..seems like having a sense of decency is considered a malfunction in the WoW community.
It amazes me...that I actually have to defend being honorable. I really pity some of you.
Post by
Aldun
Its my main source of income, at LEAST 5k+/night. Only addon i use is auctioneer. Just set up arbitrage
I think you are confusing terms. Arbitrage is not sniping. Making money off arbitrage is done all the time on all three AHs.
Sniping is when someone puts an item up a 1000g item for 1 copper simply in an effort to move it between horde and alliance and avoid the N AH fee. If the item is worth 1000g and someone sticks it up there for 500g buying it up is not sniping; it's plan old fashioned arbitrage.
I don't believe that anyone can make money off of genuine sniping to the tune of 5000g a night. Stupid people are not in infinite supply.
The whole idea of sniping is setting up arbitrage so it reconises items that get transferred for money WAAAAY lower than the worth (ex an BoE for <20g ..). So no, I'm not mixing up terms. And I never said anything about genuine, Im using an autoclicker.
Post by
606231
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
136091
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Amry
The normal AH isn't being used to transfer items..duh O.o
I would suggest that you crack open a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word "auction".
Go snipe something then and see what the response is.
I play in a PVP server. If I gank someone, and get a negative response, should I stop participating in world PvP?
Yep..seems like having a sense of decency is considered a malfunction in the WoW community.
"Sense of decency" to me means that, if a level 20 character asks me where the bank in Orgrimmar is, I won't send him to the blimp tower that'll take him to Northrend. It means "not making racist jokes", or to a certain extent, the stupid "anal" things.
If you put things up for cheap in AH and then get offended that people *gasp*
buys
them (omg! The horror!), then I don't see it as "lacking decency", it's more of an "idiot tax"
Post by
Monday
The normal AH isn't being used to transfer items..duh O.o
You're right. It's being used for it's
intended
purpose, which is as an ---------> Auction <--------- House. As in, a place where people sell things. The Neutral Auction house is a way to get Horde only items, such as the Horde Argent Tournament Pets, to the Alliance, and vice versa. Some people may have perverted the original purpose to get items to their alts... and tbh, I don't care.
If I see a deal, then I will take it. If that person was willing to take the risks to send it over, then they should be willing to accept losses. They lost, boohoo, and I won, while using the Auction House for it's
intended
purpose. People don't like that? Too bad, they can go QQ to Blizzard about how I used an in-game trading center for its
intended
purpose.
Go snipe something then and see what the response is.
I get deals on the neutral AH. Never been yelled at, had an alt created to whisper me, etc. Not once.
Yep..seems like having a sense of decency is considered a malfunction in the WoW community.
No, you are not being decent. You are being thick. If you ask people, I am a decent person, however I feel no sense of remorse buying things on the neutral auction house, as I'm using it for its
intended
purpose.
It amazes me...that I actually have to defend being honorable. I really pity some of you.
You aren't defending being honorable. You're defending being thick. I really pity you that logic and honor have been so perverted by somebody like you.
Post by
Spinkert
I, along several of my friends, use it purely to transfer items/money to our opposite faction characters. We know there is a chance someone else will buy our cheap items, so we use Vent to co-ordinate the transactions.
We've been lucky that, so far, either there wasn't a bot during the times we carried out the transactions, or we were quick enough to grab the item before a player did.
Sure, I'd be mad if someone else had beat my partner to the item, but that's a risk we are aware of and still choose to take. Whining to Blizz about how someone bought an item that I put up for cheap isn't going to work, and frankly, I scan that AH while I'm there, and if I see anything up for cheap, I'm going to buy it.
Post by
bwirum
To the people seeing buying cheap stuff at the N AH as a bad thing:
Why do you think Blizzard made it impossible to mail things to your
horde/alliance
other-faction alts?
Why do you think Blizzard made it impossible to buy out your own auctions cross-faction?
Please answer these questions and tell me why you think it has moral implications to buy out cheap AUCTIONS on the N AH. In case you missed it, key word here is AUCTIONS.
Edit: To nullify risk of losing gold in the process, faction change a level 10 alt with the gold/items you want transferred.
Post by
dadanox
I buy and sell, and de daily on each faction's ah. Consequently, I end up with large amounts of gold on both sides.
My neutral AH transactions take two forms. I may move gold over to the alliance by selling a grey item for 10k, which has a 15% ah cut taken out of it. The other transaction would be when my main needs some epic gear or mats, and I move them over for him with a sell price of 1g. In the second case, I get the advantage of not paying a large 15% penalty, but assume the risk that someone will buy the item. These are items I will wear, not me just trying make a profit cross faction.
When I transfer an item worth 10k for a sale price of 1g, I am assuming the risk. If someone happened upon it and I lost it, I would be ok with that. What I am not ok with is when even though I am sitting here with two accounts, two computers, and two hands each on a keyboard ready to buy the item when I put it up, someone is looking for a computer program that will automatically beat my reaction time.
I enjoy legitimate profit. I wouldn't enjoy profiting by engineering someone else's misfortune. These are the same inclinations that lead people to put up a single item for the stack price, or stacks or cloth at 80g when the going price is 8g. It may be within the boundaries of the game, but it wouldn't be a game where I could feel good about myself.
Post by
kepowcow
^^ Botting is not accepted i agree. But you dont need bots for that and as long as its accepted usage off addons i disagree strongly. It doesnt matter if people are sitting there and watching, thats to be expected when they know people try to cut costs like that.
Cant tell the hunter only to hunt whats hard to catch. Its perfectly legitimate to prey on people taking risks, no matter how small.
With all the reference to morality here. Why is it the ones who are trying to cuircumvent the "fee" of transfering an item cross faction the ones who get to take the higher moral ground here?
Its a risk that some people take knowingly. Dont come here acting all morally superior because youre too cheap to actually pay for getting the item transfered safe.
Post by
lonewarrior
have no problems with someone sniping items from N-AH.
However,i have never and will never snipe things on N-AH
I pulled this quote from a post..because I think it represents many of the posters in this thread.
Yet, though well meant, is still fundamentally wrong.
It's akin to saying "I would never rob my neighbors house but if I see someone else doing it I won't care"
You either condemn it or you condone it.
Now the WoW community has go so far as to coin a word "Ninja"
This word I think I can safely say is a code of conduct reference.
WoWhead is littered with threads in this regard.
I again can safely assume that the majority of us take a poor view of it.
But the deeper implication is that we would never do it ourselves and we become angry at those that do. It happens..we can't do anything about it, but we can still condemn it.
Blizz officially states that there is no such thing as ninjering. If the need roll lights up....your good to roll. Only time I can remember Blizz effectively intervening was on the need/greed Orb roll near the end of WotLK and we all know how irritating that was when the last person held out to need on everyone's greed and ninja the orb. But other then that "technically" no such thing as ninja.
But we all know better then that.
This is what it comes down to. A code of conduct, that we as a community try to establish.
Shifting items on the N-AH maybe a little shady. But it doesn't hurt anyone.
Going to the N-AH for the sole purpose of continuously refreshing the search button to catch two people in the middle of a transaction so you can clip their item and this is my sole opinion "is wrong". It's hurting someone. It's being a ninja.
Every other reference to the N-AH is pointless. The OP intention is to intercede in a transaction.
I have to say this. I would never do it because it breaks a code of conduct and I have to condemn anyone else who would do it. I can't turn a blind eye.
If you condone it...fine. In the same breath you have to condone ninjering and every other form of
poor conduct. At least be that honest.
You can't straddle the fence.
Post by
dadanox
Dont come here acting all morally superior because youre too cheap to actually pay for getting the item transfered safe.
Interesting. Getting around giving an npc 2k gold by taking some risk is morally the same as scanning the AH for the 20k item someone has up for 3 seconds, in order to grab it from him for nothing. In one case, you've hurt the npc's feelings. In the other, a real player is out 20k.
I guess you are right. That's just a job well done. Congratulations.
Post by
Amry
lonewarrior, just as a huge wall of text is considered to be bad form, so is being overly liberal with line breaks.
By your admission, "shifting items via N-AH" is shady, so why act morally superior? If I use a bot to harvest nodes and herbs, I'm not "hurting anyone", either - will you support such a move, then?
The fact is, Blizzard doesn't want you to move non-BoA items across factions - otherwise, they would've implemented something that would allow you to do so. Game the system if you want - but try to get it in your head that just as you have the right to "cheat" Blizzard, so does other users have the right to "cheat" you. Thieves shouldn't complain when their stuff gets stolen - same thing with those who try to circumvent Blizzard's rules.
Post by
lonewarrior
lonewarrior, just as a huge wall of text is considered to be bad form, so is being overly liberal with line breaks.
By your admission, "shifting items via N-AH" is shady, so why act morally superior? If I use a bot to harvest nodes and herbs, I'm not "hurting anyone", either - will you support such a move, then?
The fact is, Blizzard doesn't want you to move non-BoA items across factions - otherwise, they would've implemented something that would allow you to do so. Game the system if you want - but try to get it in your head that just as you have the right to "cheat" Blizzard, so does other users have the right to "cheat" you. Thieves shouldn't complain when their stuff gets stolen - same thing with those who try to circumvent Blizzard's rules.
You make no sense other then to justify your poor outlook.
Two wrongs don't make a right..ever hear that. doubt it
Botting hurts the community..I think I made my point clear on that...your just to dense to understand it.
Cheat Blizzard O.o? ....stop posting please.
We are talking about how to treat people...obviously we get a clear picture of how you are treated and thus how your treat others. You set no standards for yourself other then to dog everyone around you. I pity you.
Post by
vincistis
It's like, A store owner putting up a laptop for $5 so his buddy can buy it. Don't be surprised when someone is like, "OMG WTF IM SO LUCKY!" And buys it before his buddy. I honestly can't see how it could be "Stealing" The man put it up for
SALE
god dammit
Post by
vincistis
lonewarrior, just as a huge wall of text is considered to be bad form, so is being overly liberal with line breaks.
By your admission, "shifting items via N-AH" is shady, so why act morally superior? If I use a bot to harvest nodes and herbs, I'm not "hurting anyone", either - will you support such a move, then?
The fact is, Blizzard doesn't want you to move non-BoA items across factions - otherwise, they would've implemented something that would allow you to do so. Game the system if you want - but try to get it in your head that just as you have the right to "cheat" Blizzard, so does other users have the right to "cheat" you. Thieves shouldn't complain when their stuff gets stolen - same thing with those who try to circumvent Blizzard's rules.
Uhum, They
did
put up something to transfer non BoA items cross faction.
The.
Neutral.
Auction.
House.
I do however agree sniping is OK.
Post by
136091
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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