This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Neutral AH Sniping.
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
I'm just going to say there are no flat out "morals." Morals are personal, and only the individual can determine their own morals. Just because it is against your morals doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
Post by
Magician22773
EDIT:Lotta deep thought stuff here
FINALLY! I knew someone here had it in them, it just took a while to drag it out into the open.
Thank you sinespe and Funden for finally entering the ring with something that can actually be debated. Its too late for me to prepare a reasonable response, so I will save that for a later time.
Look, I actually enjoy these types of debate. Even when they start to stray into "venomous" rants. (Yes, I actually got a little angry back there, and for that, I was wrong). My guess is, that at the end of the day, we will have to agree to disagree, but that should not stop us from engaging in conversation that goes a little deeper than "What spec is better for my mage?"
More to come, when I can find the time.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Magician22773
This is a pretty rich response from a guy who has spent the thread calling people "scumbad sheep" (?) and saying they lack morals and character if they disagree with you. If deep thoughts take place in this thread it's not any fault of yours.
So, first, I accepted fault for losing my temper. Not that you or anyone else is obligated to accept the apology, but it still stands. And that alone is more than many on this board will ever do.
Second, I said they were "scumbad sheep", for lacking morality and sniping auctions...not for simply disagreeing with me.
And third...I have been called "mentally deformed", "insane", a "ninja", "thick(headed)", accused of "acting morally superior", "not too bright", "idiotic", and "stupid".....all DIRECTLY because someone disagreed with me. Yet, I am the one accused of "attempting to ignite a flame war, and the one obstructing any deep conversation in thread"?
Post by
Monday
Everyone acted to create a flamewar who posted in the argument.
acting morally superior
This accusation is true, but moreso on lonewarrior.
Second, I said they were "scumbad sheep", for lacking morality and sniping auctions...
They may lack your morality, but they still may have morality.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
Everyone acted to create a flamewar who posted in the argument.
acting morally superior
This accusation is true, but moreso on lonewarrior.
If you can't feel comfortable with your decisions don't twist it to making it sound as if I am trying to be superior. I did no such thing.
But what defines the "Moral" and the "right" in this case is nothing more than selfishness. Subconscious selfishness, of course -- the kind of selfishness that other people aren't designed to notice. But, as I explained: where you have involvement with the people carrying out the process, you have a benefit from either outcome (sniping vs not sniping), and you weigh those up to make your decision.
But the weight of one of your decisions can leave one party hurt. This you can't deny. The person you snipe in the middle of a transaction, should you choose to, is going to feel robbed. That reaction and my feelings would bother me.
Anyone trying to dance around the issue of it's not hurting someone or trying to bolster their argument by saying well "they" are already doing something wrong so why should I care are just try to cover their own asses.
I kind of like to go by the old adage "do on to others..etc" Just because someone is gullible..doesn't mean they should be exploited. If anyone here ever decided to transfer an item and it was sniped, I think we would all share the same feelings. Regardless on whether we knew the risks or not, we would still feel slighted.(most of us anyway). Why would we feel slighted? because we felt we were "wronged" Now someone might retort "oh sure I would hate it, but I would have to accept it as just a part of the game, I took the chance"
I would say ..yes you have to accept it because there is nothing you can do about it..but if you could push a button and have that item returned to you...would you? My answer would be "yes" because I felt robbed...what would your answer be?
My whole argument has been around the larger picture of what this brings to the WoW community as a whole. That someone sees greater merit in attempting to snipe an item rather then to participate through normal channels in building wealth/acquiring gear. Now some people may say sniping is a part of the normal channels, if you can feel comfortable with that then so be it.
PS..When I use the word "you" ..I'm using a generic person...I'm not point at you :)
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
136091
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
I'm a bit at loss about whether or not this thread is still on topic, or not - but, let's put it this way: If it gets as out of hand as it did earlier, or continues in the same no-good loop, it'll be shut down for good. Let's hope it doesn't happen.
Post by
lonewarrior
state plainly that if anyone does do something purely altruistic, with absolutely no gain to themselves, they are being unnatural; there is something wrong with their brain
But can this state of mind even exist? Consciously or subconsciously we always attempt to acquire something from our actions. It may not always be tangible. See below.
In specific terms, in common usage "seeking" is a conscious act. When I do something like helping some random member of the opposite faction complete a quest, for no reason other than because I feel like it, then in common usage I have acted without seeking reward, and hence altruistically.
But you were seeking something? It made you feel something.
Feelings of joy, happiness, self-satisfaction are also things we constantly seek to acquire. The reward in your example was "I feel like it" <<keyword "feel" what was that feeling? I assume it must have been a good feeling.
Take this a slightly different way. If a guy, on his very first character, just reached Tanaris and found the Neutral Auction House. They see a bunch of epics or some truegold or whatever, for sale at 1c and decide to buy it, because why wouldn't they...it's 1c!
Are they also an "immoral scumbag" like the rest of us are? If not, why not, and why does this not apply to the rest of us?
But this was not a conscious act. The OP was deliberate in his request. He was making a conscious decision to snipe. This is not "oooopppps...lucky me truegold for 1c"
Now the true test becomes if he is confronted. If someone whispers your example player and explains to him what they were doing and if they could have the items back? Now he has to make a conscious decision.
Don't talk to me about "immorality" when the same people whose transactions I am supposed to respect will gank me at a herb node or mining node.
I wouldn't sit on the neutral AH for hours, but if I see something that is clearly an ilegal cross faction transfer, then I am going to buy it, just like 99.9% of the people who play this game would.
The issue has never been about them...it's always been about you/me/us. If your principals are only based upon what you receive, then you have none. You have mob mentality.
What is that you ask? Take looting...most people won't do if there is no one else around doing it...but as soon as an area is being looting, this were you either live up to your principals and say looting is wrong or say screwed this everyone else is looting might as well do it myself.
If your actions in WoW are based upon what is done wrong...then the community will deteriorate very quickly.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
136091
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
If your principals are only based upon what you receive, then you
are human
FTFY.
Define yourself...not me, if you don't mind. I aspire to be better and rise above pettiness.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.