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Surviving in heroics?
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Post by
Fwibbles
Armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/ironfaust/simple
I'm having trouble surviving in heroics (or at least i think i am)
I've done Heroic SFK, BRC, and DM, and I had a lot of trouble in DM.
I'm seeing my HP spiking up and down, and i'm having to use cooldowns on trash.
What can I do to improve my performance (gear upgrades , rotation, gems, general leadership)?
And is it just a given that a gearing up tank be like this?
The most glaring problem (to me) is the relative silence of these pugs (in which being a PUG may be the problem itself) and their dubious performances. I can't tell if its the heals, dps, or me that's having problems.
(don't ask why i'm tailoring/enchanting-- I have no idea why i did that and due to budget, am stuck with it until further notice)
Post by
MrSCH
and i'm having to use cooldowns on trash. Sounds about right to me.
And is it just a given that a gearing up tank be like this? Yeah I'd guess so, after all you're
gearing
; it's going to be challenging by definition.
Oh, I'd reforge a bit of parry into dodge if you can. Get them more even.
Post by
138583
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Post by
138583
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Post by
Fwibbles
I was wondering, as I had a DPS mindset with CD's regarding heroics; thanks for clearing that up.
EDIT: just switched the head in for the Earthen Ring one, was using the Wildhammer as a filler.
And thanks for clearing up the gems, I was confused with those.
Post by
Orranis
Gems:
Way too much stamina stacking. You dont need max hp. Your bloodshield is based on damage taken within last 5 seconds. You max hp is irrelevant. In heroics you also get some buffs and 15% modifier. I tanked heroics with 120k hp unbuffed and it went just fine.
You gems should be:
Prismatic and yellow - mastery
Blue - mastery/stamina
Red - parry/mastery
Hmmm... I just thought of something. /flex brain muscle.
I'm going to pull out my old Blood Shield/healing equations.
Let's assume a tank has 100,000 health, for simplicities sake. This includes buffs. Let's also assume he has no other mastery.
B= (100,000+H)*0.07*(0.50+M). B is Blood Shield, H is additional health , and M is your mastery multiplied by 0.0625, as it's that much extra shield from healing per point.
E = (100,000+H)*0.07, if E is equal to amount healing.
Now let's compare a 60 stamina gem to a 40 mastery gem.
One point of stamina gives you 14 health at level 85, or one gem for 840 health. This is multiplied by buffs, such as Veteran of the Third War and Kings, and the 15% dungeon finder buff. So 840*1.09*1.05*1.15 = 1105 health from one 60 stamina trinket.
E = (100,000 + 1105)*0.07 = 7,705 healing.
B = (100,000+1105)*0.07*(0.50+(0.0625*0)) = 3539 blood shield.
That totals 11,244 damage the healer does not have to heal.
Now, 40 mastery. You get one mastery for every 179.28 mastery rating, so one mastery gem is roughly 0.22 of a mastery point. Now usually this would round down, but let's assume it doesn't, as you would also be getting Mastery from additional gear.
E = (100,000 + 0)*0.07 = 7,000 healing.
B = (100,000+0)*0.07*(0.50+(0.0625*0.22)) = 3,596 blood shield.
That totals 10,596 damage the healer does not have to heal.
Now I'm not sure how often you get minimum heals in heroics, as I outgear them by a ridiculous amount at this point and would have to try very hard not to get one, but not including overhealing this would make Stamina
more
desirable, not less, with the 15% buff. Assuming that a good lot of his Death Strikes are minimums, Stamina isn't that far behind mastery, and if he's having effective health problems (dying) rather than mitigation problems (healer's ooming)...
That said, he should still probably go for Mastery in prismatic sockets or Belt of the Ferocious Wolf (the socket bonus is worthless). I just wanted to make a note.
Post by
138583
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Post by
379034
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138583
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Post by
168916
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Post by
Orranis
All that has nothing to do with real situation.
Max HP doesnt increase your healing or bloodshield.
Death strike operates on damage you took over last 5 seconds, but a 7% max HP minimum.
With 100k Hp that would mean you would have to take equal or less than 7k damage during last 5 seconds.
With 140k HP that would mean you would have to take equal or less than 10k damage during last 5 seconds.
With 200k Hp that would mean you would have to take equal or less than 14k damage during last 5 seconds.
Thats no damage than can make you live or die. If you take such damage healer can just heal you from time to time with his slow and effcient heal. This is a damage you and your healer laugh at. This is a damage where you can simply prioritise heart strikes over death strikes on death runes and do some good dps and kill stuff faster and therefore require less healing in the long run. You overgear stuff? Fine, take almost no damage and do 20k dps on trash.
Prioritising stamina over mastery doesnt increase your survivability in any circumstances. Period. Your whole math is useless due to false assumption.
You're doing your math wrong. If 20% of the damage taken over the last five seconds exceeds 7% of your health it's not a minimum heal. He would have to take 42,000 damage in five seconds in order to gain a greater than a 7% heal. While your argument works in raids, it's far less frequent to see this kind of damage taken in a heroic. I'm not even saying Stamina is better, (although assuming you get all, or even just a majority of minimum heals it actually is, but that's only with the 15% buff), I'm just saying that stamina isn't worthless by a long shot.
Post by
Fwibbles
I'm currently having some gripes about expertise..
Where would I get a good amount as to where i could get reasonably capped?
(Trying to get heroic wildhammer for dwarf bonus)
Should I be trying to get these capped at this level of gear?
For hit, I just use Elixir of Impossible Accuracy.
EDIT: Switched Numbing Handguards with Gloves of the Greymane wall for expertise problem(?)
Both are enchanted with 50 Mastery.
(enchant not included)
-130 dodge
-140 mastery
-64 str
+205 Parry
+ 114 expertise
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fwibbles
Are having that much trouble keeping aggro? Expertise and hit are threat stats - if you're building threat faster than your dps, you don't need any more of them. Most tanks at all levels find that the absolute minimum of expertise and hit work just fine (i.e. whatever is left after you've reforged them off wherever possible).
Nope, I was just wondering, because people have been stressing their importance; I guess I was just paranoid.
Now I'm not having that much trouble in heroics, thanks to all your tips and the guides; thanks.
Post by
Orranis
If you're going to use Elixirs, use Elixir of the Master. It's golden.
Post by
Fwibbles
So i have an ilvl of 347... should i tank or start dpsing the troll heroics? I'd like to know how difficult it is as a tank before rushing in.
(ZA... oh god ZA)
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fwibbles
I see.. alright, i'm gonna try it out; god forbid I get ZA and people are like GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGGOGOGOGGO
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