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U.S. atheists sue to run bus ads for a God-free lifestyle
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Post by
Gone
How the heck is this thread still going?
Beats the *!@# out of me, Im done. As I have been trying to say for three pages, this isnt a thread about the goods and bads of religion and atheism. Its about an ad on a bus that happens to be about atheism. Im not gonna get dragged into this thread anymore.
Well since you seem to be the replying person for most of the last few pages.....
Why do you always have to troll, or pick at, everything I say >.> literaly everything
Post by
Adamsm
Cause you make dumb comments and the chance to comment is too good to resist?
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Let me rephrase what I meant. I didn't mean that atheists had, by body count, done as much damage as any particular religion. I meant that the attitude of intolerance is the problem itself, and any group of people or belief system that preaches or condones it is adding to the issue, not helping it.
However, if you are looking for a specific example of injustice in the name of atheism, you'd have to look at former Soviet Russia. They listed state atheism as a goal, and to that end they destroyed and confiscated religious property and institutions. They harassed and jailed believers, and in Soviet Russia being sent to a gulag could very well equal a death sentence. So, if you want to argue that atheism as a practice has clean hands, that's not entirely true.
What I am saying is that it seems to be human nature to identify that which is different and to hate and fear it. Throughout history, those in power abuse those who are different. Religion is often used as the divider, but so is race, caste, nationality, gender, etc.
If you're angry about all of the petty hate, the discrimination, the murder and violence that has been done in the name of religion, you're right to be so-I am too. It disgusts me. But religion and spirituality can also inspire people to give to charity, travel across the world to build bridges and homes for people with no means to do so themselves, and to take an interest in making their community better. I'm not saying ONLY religious people do this, but the institutions do promote that. It's a mixed bag, just like every other thing that humans do.
Most religions are based on books written by men. Some of their ideas are good, some of them are rubbish. Some people take these books and use them as a reason to hate people, to justify their own nasty streaks and to make themselves feel important. Other people take them and use them as a source of strength to beat a drug addiction, as an inspiration to help those who are less fortunate or a set of stories to teach their children about things like honesty, charity and respecting their parents. Can you do all of these things, good and evil, without religion? Yes. Does that mean religion is useless? Maybe for you, but not for everyone.
I just believe that if you look at all of the blanket intolerance that has come from religion over the years, and your response is to be intolerant of anyone who practices the religion in any form, you're perpetuating the cycle. If you truely believe that people would be better without religion, the prove it by being the better person. You prove nothing by engaging in the same petty back and forth, and the same nasty generalizations that lead you to walk away from religion in the first place.
Post by
Gone
Cause you make dumb comments and the chance to comment is too good to resist?
Dude its literaly every post I make you pop in with some little comment thats either trolling, or like I said just picking at it caus I miss worded something.
And yes you can be an ass by trying to make what you think is a clever comment just there but w/e be that way if you want kid.
Post by
166779
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ExDementia
Fair point Elhonna :)
Ryja, if you work on your spelling, grammar, and punctuation skills a little bit, people would take you more seriously. This isn't a personal attack, it is just a heads up. People don't give as much merit to the opinions of those who sound uneducated.
Post by
Adamsm
Actually I think someone used the Russian point already...and someone else discredited a few pages back.
Post by
Gone
Fair point Elhonna :)
Ryja, if you work on your spelling, grammar, and punctuation skills a little bit, people would take you more seriously. This isn't a personal attack, it is just a heads up. People don't give as much merit to the opinions of those who sound uneducated.
Im not uneducated, its just something ive always had trouble with. I dont really understand it, I read more than anybody I know so I feel like I shouldnt have such a problem with this...
I actualy have mild dislexia, but I dont really like saying that because people think its like a mental retardation or something, but its just a problem people have with spelling. Something to do with looking at a word and recognising the word itself rather than the individual letters while reading. So I read and write really fast, but reading outloud I tend to stumble over words and as you can see I have spelling issues.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
606231
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
Anyway besides the crusades, show me a large scale example of how christianity has persecuited and killed people, more than a few hundred years ago?
Oh, you mean besides the longest and bloodiest series of wars in human history...
First of all no its not
Second I really dont feel like arguing about this anymore, this isnt a thread about the good and bad of religion or atheism.
Post by
Adamsm
200 years worth of wars isn't the longest?
Post by
Gone
200 years worth of wars isn't the longest?
Im fairly sure the Roman conquests lasted longer than that.
EDIT: Oh and there were (I beleive) six crusades that happened over the course of 200 years, not a single war that lasted 200 years.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Actually I think someone used the Russian point already...and someone else discredited a few pages back.
The only argument I read wasn't what I'd consider a discreditation. They didn't say that it wasn't done, or that it wasn't done in the name of atheism. They said that since it was a totolitarian regime, if could have been done in the name of any religion. (If there was a different one, and I missed it, please let me know)
To be fair, if the religious segment of 1930's germany that was small enough to be used as a scapegoat and considered by the general populace to "have all the money" was Christian, Muslim or Hindu, then Hitler probably would have targeted them for genocide, because that was really about using people's fears and prejudices to take control of the country and mobilize it to war. A rose by any other name, right?
If anything, I think the person's argument supports my point- that it's not religion, or atheism, or any particular branch of anything that's the problem. It's that people will take any title, any group identity, any name, that they can use to create an "us vs. them" mentality, and use it to push whatever agendas they have. The example with Soviet Russia isn't to show that atheism is wrong- it's to show that it can be used as effectivly as any specific religious ideology as a tool for dirtbags to gain power, oppress people and spread hate and intolerance.
Post by
Gone
Anyway besides the crusades, show me a large scale example of how christianity has persecuited and killed people, more than a few hundred years ago?
Oh, you mean besides the longest and bloodiest series of wars in human history...
First of all no its not
Second I really dont feel like arguing about this anymore, this isnt a thread about the good and bad of religion or atheism.
As series of war goes, it's the bloodiest and it's also the longest at just under 200 years. Modern wars have been bloodier because of advancements in transportation and weaponry, but they've all been less than 20 years.
Regardless of the particulars, you're still saying to ignore an incredibly blatant attack by Christians on other religions. And there are plenty of other instances of other religions doing the same thing, though on a smaller scale.
And yes, this is a perfect thread for that seeing as it was your point that Atheism is the attack on religion and that it was more offensive.
Nooo man I really dont want anybody to think thats what I meant, that atheism was an attack on religion. Just thats how people could take it, and that atheism is in itself a lack of religion, so it can very easily be perceived as an attack.
Also like I said the roman conquests lasted longer than 200 years, and the crusades didnt happen one right after the other, they were many years apart, so it wasnt a perpetual state of war. The longest state of perpetual conflict I think was something like 100 years, which is pretty bad but even in modern times, there has been perpetual war going on in Africa for over, if not at least 100 years.
Post by
Azazel
200 years worth of wars isn't the longest?
Im fairly sure the Roman conquests lasted longer than that.
You can't use that as an excuse. There are many wars that lasted longer than WWII.
Post by
Gone
200 years worth of wars isn't the longest?
Im fairly sure the Roman conquests lasted longer than that.
You can't use that as an excuse. There are many wars that lasted longer than WWII.
Ok? What does WW2 have to do with this?
Chaos said the crusades were the longest war in human history, I said they werent, he asked if 200 years was the longest, I said no and listed the roman wars as an example of a war that was the longest.
Post by
Azazel
200 years worth of wars isn't the longest?
Im fairly sure the Roman conquests lasted longer than that.
You can't use that as an excuse. There are many wars that lasted longer than WWII.
Ok? What does WW2 have to do with this?
Chaos said the crusades were the longest war in human history, I said they werent, he asked if 200 years was the longest, I said no and listed the roman wars as an example of a war that was the longest.
People were killed based on their religion and/or race.
Post by
Gone
200 years worth of wars isn't the longest?
Im fairly sure the Roman conquests lasted longer than that.
You can't use that as an excuse. There are many wars that lasted longer than WWII.
Ok? What does WW2 have to do with this?
Chaos said the crusades were the longest war in human history, I said they werent, he asked if 200 years was the longest, I said no and listed the roman wars as an example of a war that was the longest.
People were killed based on their religion and/or race.
Yea but the way he said it seemed strange, I dont think he understood the context of what we were talking about. I think he thought I was saying "well the roman wars lasted longer so the crusaded werent so bad" which i wasnt. Like I said Im done talking about the religion vs atheism thing, that was just a statement of fact.
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