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MD, the fade effect, and tanks
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Post by
Lorkin
I have a question about how
Misdirection
works. I know how it works in general, but I have a specific question in mind about the period when it wears off. Lets use simple quantitative numbers for this example.
Say I generate 1000 threat during the Burst phase with about 800 being transferred with MD on the tank.
Say also that the tank manages to only generate 600 threat by the time MD wears off.
So me at 1000 threat, 800 threat is on the tank, I have 200 threat. Tank generates his own 600 threat, so 1400 with my MD. Once my MD wears off, I regain my 800 threat back and the tank is at 600 threat and I'm now back at 1000 threat. Thus I pull aggro.
Is this correct? My assumption is that I regain my threat from MD once it fades.
=====================================================================
If the above assumption is correct, what would happen if the tank threw a taunt into the mix? If by close to the end of the MD fade period, if the tank taunted, would he somehow keep the 800 aggro level he was at plus his 600 threat and then continue to build aggro from there?
If the tank can somehow keep that elevated aggro level at 1400 by the end of the MD fade period, I would technically be at 1000 threat and the tank would be at 1400 threat, is this correct?
=====================================================================
Or perhaps a 2nd tank came along and managed to taunt it when the first tank was at the elevated 1400 threat level? Then they would do another tank swap and the original first tank would taunt off the 2nd tank, which would bring both tanks to 1400 threat as well. Would they be able to keep that imaginary 1400 threat?
=====================================================================
I guess the reason I ask is because some of the tanks I've been running with have lost aggro on me once my MD fade wears off. I would have to FD just to not pull aggro off the boss once I get my threat back after MD. If there was a mechanism for the tanks to keep that threat, I would greatly like to tell them vs using my FD all the time. If they could toss a taunt in their mix, or even taunt off each other then maybe they can keep all the "fake" threat from Hunters and Rogues.
Post by
izuul
Generally, your tank should have enough time to generate threat by the time your MD fades. However, there are situations where the tank is trying to move or something and just isn't able to generate as much threat as they normally would. This coupled with the crazy damage that MM can dish out at the beginning of the fight can occasionally lead to us having threat issues. In my experience this doesn't happen too frequently though.
And you should absolutely use your FD. The tank's taunt is much more valuable than your FD. Besides, this is what FD is designed for. If you aren't using it to avoid pulling threat, what are you using it for?
Post by
Lorkin
Well I understand that using FD is important and situations WHY the tank could lose aggro. I also happen to PuG raid a lot, in which tank's aren't that well geared so they don't generate nearly enough threat in some cases. But my question is if their taunt mechanic can offset some of that insane aggro MM generates during the opening once MD fades.
I've used FD for many different cases in the Cata raids. Magmatron's Flame Acquiring target and Atremedes's Sonic Breath are some examples where FD would come in handy.
Post by
Kciroj
So me at 1000 threat, 800 threat is on the tank, I have 200 threat. Tank generates his own 600 threat, so 1400 with my MD. Once my MD wears off, I regain my 800 threat back and the tank is at 600 threat and I'm now back at 1000 threat. Thus I pull aggro.
Incorrect. The 800 threat is not returned to you. You are still at 200, the tank is now at 600. You don't pull aggro.
If the tank can somehow keep that elevated aggro level at 1400 by the end of the MD fade period, I would technically be at 1000 threat and the tank would be at 1400 threat, is this correct?
Taunt puts the tank at equal threat as the enemy's target, but does nothing threatwise if it's already attacking the tank. All it would do is leave a short debuff that forces the enemy to attack the tank for the duration even if during that time someone overaggros.
Or perhaps a 2nd tank came along and managed to taunt it when the first tank was at the elevated 1400 threat level? Then they would do another tank swap and the original first tank would taunt off the 2nd tank, which would bring both tanks to 1400 threat as well. Would they be able to keep that imaginary 1400 threat?
Yes! Taunt generates 1400 threat for the 2nd tank to match the fist tank's current threat level. When the 1st tank loses his Misdirection threat this doesn't affect the 2nd tank's threat at all. If the 1st tank would taunt again he would again generate 1400 threat. As far as I know it doesn't matter if this happens before or after your MD threat 'fades'.
What you do with this information is up to you, but I wouldn't recommend planning anything around this mechanic if it involves having two tanks 'juggle' taunts just so they can keep the little bit of extra threat you can provide them with.
Post by
Apocalipsus
Greatings.
All the threat you generete is directed to the target of your misdirect.
So if during those 4 sec MD lasts you cause 5000 threat, your MD target is at 5k threat and you are at 0.
After the 30 sec (when the transfer threat ends) your MD target would lose those 5k threat. But you wont gain any.
A lot of stuff can happen on 30 seg, and during that time the enemy/boss already slaped your tank by a lot of damage and he is with a decent amount of vengeance by now. He should be very fine threat wise.
As a tank my main problem is the start of the fight and thats where hunters (that misdirect me) are my best friends. Or rogues.
Post by
Lorkin
That seems kinda odd, my assumption was that the threat you gave them came back, sorta like the priest's
Fade
ability. I have at the end of the MD transfer period suddenly gained aggro somehow. I could have sworn by looking at omen that my threat jumped the second it ended.
I guess I have to be better at keeping my aggro in check, or perhaps some of the tanks I ran with need to up their threat. Some tanks I could essentially ignore omen, but other tanks even with MD and TotT from rogues seem to struggle with aggro during some fights.
Post by
298296
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
What I'm seeing is this:
Before MD effect fade:
============== Tank's
======== Mine
The brackets in omen are black which shows "fake or temp" threat from MD or TotT's.
After MD fade
============== Tanks's
==================== Mine
It seems to jump ahead somehow, that black fake threat bar seemed to transfer to my omen bar and suddenly I have aggro. This is where I generally have to FD.
Post by
141898
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kciroj
A Tank's taunt does two things: 1) is forces the target to keep all attention on the taunter for a few seconds, and 2) it automatically matches whomever had the highest threat in the aggro table.
I do not think it works like that actually. Repeating myself here, taunt does nothing threatwise if the target is already attacking you. Hunter at 129% threat, you taunt, hunter still at 129% threat. Hunter at 130% threat, gets aggro, you taunt, your threat is now equal to the hunter's, both 100% threat.
Post by
141898
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kciroj
Dear Daefaroth, there's absolutely no need to repeat yourself. You say A, I say B. We disagree. According to you, taunts will match threat to the highest on the threat table even if the target is still attacking you. According to me, taunts don't work that way. I base this entirely on my own tanking experience so I don't have any proof to back this up, but neither do you. Perhaps some fresh input can confirm or deny our theories.
Post by
141898
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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