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BM-specc with improved steady shot any good?
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Post by
ljudsnubbe
Hi
I used to do BGs in a BM-spec with
and pretty much liked it. But I later respecced to the usual, recomended 31/7/3 BM-spec and have played so since. However, a recent post on this forum got me thinking and I have been trying it again for a couple of days now, and I dont notice any dps-loss at all.
Now, to clearify:
I have itemlvl 358 (I dont raid anymore, so the normal ZA/ZG gear, + a couple of crafted epics and some faction gear) and follow the normal "rotation" when using the recomended spec.
When speccing into ISS I dont use serpent sting at all, and replaces cobrashot with steady shot (always 2 at a time to keep the 15% hastebuff up).
Im aware that SS does less dmg then CS, and that not using SS (refreshed with CS) also should be a dps-loss, but I just cant see any difference when ive been testing it.
Thoughts (and this is only theories, I have no idea really):
-SS often falls of during BW-phase. Recasting it costs 25 focus and GCD (loosing dps)
-Using SS (with 15% haste from ISS-talent) provides more focus then using CS (faster casts = more shots casted = more focus gained). More focus let me cast more arcane shots = more
+
+
Invigoration
triggers (gaining dps)
-The better focusregen when using the ISS-specc also made me less dependent on using
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82692
. When not using it I still had the needed 15% from ISS (needed to fit in extra SSs in between KS-cd), and when using it on top of ISS-buff, I had a whopping 30% haste. Not using it makes pet does more dmg naturally (dps-gain), and using it made me shot like a machinegun.
Now, I aint saying a ISS-BM-specc is better in any way. I just got surprised over the results i got, and the ISS-specc was actually more fun and alot easier/forgiving.
Now, and this is probably most important: I dont raid (except the weekly BH), so this is only tried in heroics, BH (once), BGs, and training dummies (however, quite thorough testing on the dummys). In these scenarios, I cant meassure any dps-loss when using the ISS-specc. In fact its actually easier and more forgiving.
I have no idea how these abilitys scale with better gear and raidbuffs, so Im asking for opinions here? What do you think? Any number-crunchers feel like making a comment?
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
You cant cast more arcane shots because you dont have enough free gcds to do it. Plus you have to use Steadies in pairs, unlike Cobras which you can wave in between. This makes your focus dumping much more hectic, as Invigoration part of the focus regen is unpredictable. Also Invigoration is independant of pets/your haste. Basic attack has non-modifiable 3s cooldown.
With a (almost) constant 30% hastebuff (15% from ISS + 15% from FF) casting two SSs in a row every time is not a problem, nor is GCDs (however, if you think casting 2 SSs is clumpsy, this specc of naturally nothing for you).
And unless every basic attack the pet uses crits, more arcane shots will mean more chanses of them critting, and more chanses to trigger Cobra strike/SicEm. Im not saying this has anything to do with pet haste.
And oh, the focus regen from Invigoration is always gonna be a bit unpredictable, going for a ISS-specc doesnt change that at all.
Using a skill that have to be used in pairs every several seconds makes you less dependant of a skill thats off gcd, costs nothing and can be used as soon as its ready?
Im just switching CS to SS, both are affected by the GCD what im awere of. And if you mean focus fire, Im using that
and
ISS. Im not replacing FF with the ISS-buff.
If thats easier and more forgiving at the same time, i pressume you been doing something wrong as Cobra shot BM.
I dont know, I actually consider me to be a pretty good BM-player. Im at level with, and regulary out-dps, most MM-hunters of equal gear I play with, in guild and in randoms. I know how to play the normal BM-specc, using CS.
Now, I aint saying you are wrong, just cant agree with your arguments so far, allthough I thank you for your oppinions =) (try it out and come back to me perhaps?)
And im not saying "hey I just found out something that will change the game for BMs!". I was just surprised over the results of my testing, but want some oppinions on how this specc would scale since I know nothing about that kind of math-stuff.
Perhaps someone else is using a simular specc and want to join the discussion?
Post by
141898
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
The problem that I see with using Steady as BM, is that you're using GCDs for Steady that might be better served using Arcane Shot, and you aren't maintaining the timer on Serpent Sting, which means that you'll likely need to keep re-applying it, which costs a GCD without adding any damage (compared to the normal rotation).
So at the very least/best you're gaining 15% Haste, at the cost of re-applying Serpent Sting every 15 seconds
I dont think I was clear anough: I havnt used Serpent Sting at all when testing the ISS-specc, and still didnt loose any dps. I know it sounds wierd, but thats why I started this thread. I dont get it either.
Basically then by using Steady instead of Cobra, in theory it works out to be pretty much the same, except that you're dealing Physical Damage instead of Nature
As for PvP... note that you often really can't stand still long enough to get Steadyx2 off, and Plate wearers especially have a lot more Armor than NPC enemies. Using Cobra Shot, as long as you have the recommended 195 Spell Penetration your spell-damage (Arcane, Cobra) should hit harder than the Steady physical damage, and you're less reliant on standing still.
Absolutely, I totally agree here.
Funny thing, the reason I tried this spec now is that I once played BGs with friends playing only physic-dmg-classes, so I tried this specc (got all physical buffs/debuffs covered but pretty much none of the magic-buffs, so I figured "why not try picking up ISS and run with a ravager"). Under these circumstances it worked "ok" but I respecced to the standard 31/7/3 specc and have played like that until now, because at that time (much worse gear then, 320-ish) the normal BM-specc was far superior. But now, when Ive got much better gear, I seem to do equally good dps in both speccs, thats why I suspect SS scales better then CS. However, I got no idea if im correct or not, but I cant seem to find any good answeres to why the ISS-specc works fine (for me) all of the sudden.
Maybe its just the nature of what Ive been testing the specc on: a couple of days HCs, one BH, a bit of pvp (only focused on low armor targets and healers when doing BGs, to see the impact on these when dealing physical dmg instead of magic) and lots and lots of training dummies. All these may all have low armor (dont know about HC-bosses or training dummies amount of armor), and that why I get ok dps with a inferior specc?
Post by
141898
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
Just a thought... but it depends on where you'd otherwise use the 3 talent points in Improved Steady (with at least 31 in BM and 5 in MM).
- Hunter Vs. Wild: The extra Stamina might help in PvP but you won't notice a DPS difference
- Pathing: 3% Haste may not be enough to notice, but does not require using Steady Shot like ISS does.
- Improved Serpent Sting: Definite boost to DPS as long as you keep the sting up; possibly more if you're actively refreshing the Sting.
I still dont think you understand. Or trolling me?
I have been playing BM totally by the book (using serpent sting & cobra shot: NOT a ISS-specc) since I hit 85, with the exception of the weekend I decided to try the ISS-build. When I respecced to ISS I lost considerebly dps, at that gearlvl, and respecced back to the normal specc (pathing/improved serpent sting). Now at itemlvl 358, I decided to try it again (got reminded of the spec when reading another thread here at wowhead). I have tried it for now almost a week, and I didnt loose any dps at all.
In theory, I understand a ISS-specc for BM would be a dps loss, I totally get that, but in game it just doesnt make any difference (for me, the way I have been testing, read my former posts pls)
Bottom line: it might not be a noticable DPS loss for BM to have Improved Steady, but in theory it doesn't
add
anything
unless you're using Steady Shot
, whereas Pathfinding and/or Improved Sting should at least add a little.
Well the whole idea of the specc IS to use Steady shot isnt it? why would I pick the talents otherwise? read my former posts again pls... I dont try to use both SS and CS to try to gain the 15% haste buff and keep SS refreshed at the same time, I dont SS at all so no lost GCDs there, just KC, AS, SS (and KS under 20% naturally, and BW when its up of course), and
doesnt loose any dps
.
Post by
236475
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Doring
So just to clarify, you are blowing off serpent sting and poison damage completely, right? So you are relying on single shot damage and no DoT?
Kill Command, Arcane Shot, Steady Shot (Kill Shot when up) and Bestial Wrath when up. Alternating between AS and SS depending on if you have the focus, correct?
And you say you see no DPS loss from the usual Serpent Sting/Cobra Shot build for BM. I am just trying to clarify because I am not quite to that gear level and I enjoy BM though at my gear I get about 1K more DPS from a MM build and use that for raiding unless some buff id needed.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
I dont know what game you play if Cobra does same damage as Steady for you.
Chances are he's shooting an armorless target.
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