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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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4.2 Shadow
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Post by
45199
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Post by
469135
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Post by
greywolfsage
with that there is a haste threshold of 2149 with Dark Intent or 2588 without Dark Intent. Reaching these points is a substantial increase in DPS and once you get this theshold its better to reforge into mastery.
That's like 25% haste right?
Post by
91278
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Post by
vykas
It's interesting to see something quoted from shadowpriest.com when I believe they originated the "
Why Haste Plateaus Don't Exists
" thread. Basically explaining that there is no number we have to reach--that haste scales well regardless of our current haste.
Personally I'd take anything with an absolute haste number with a grain of salt as more than likely it is misinterpreted. As well, the stat weights are not far off from where they were prior to the patch (however mastery has seen a more decisive increase over crit in T12 normal gear).
Post by
IDrownFish
stuff.
Pretty much this.
Haste doesn't plateau. This has not changed. Mastery is slightly better than crit now, but that's about it.
Ok, obviously I need to learn what the hell I'm talking about.
This was nagging me because I had only done a little research on the subject. I did more digging, and here's what I found:
The plateaus
do
exist. However, it's more of a threshold than an actual plateau. Looking at
Kilee's guide
on HowToPriest.com, we can see that there is a threshold where VT gains a second tick at 2588 haste (2140 with Dark Intent).
However, past this threshold, currently people have no idea what the !@#$ is going on. Basically, a very small population is just now getting there, and we'll have to wait for further into Firelands before people can actually provide evidence. Kilee herself says this:
Should I stack Mastery after reaching a Haste Plateau?
Once you are wearing tier 12 4 piece bonus, I believe this may increase your dps. For proof of this, copy and past the action list I posted in the Stat Weights section into Simulationcraft, and sim a Patchwerk style fight with 378 gear on. The results you get are very interesting.
However, reaching this potential I think will be very dependant on your play style. If you are confident in your ability to take advantage of spell procs you may see a marginal increase in DPS by stacking mastery over haste after the 2140 point (with DI) or the 2588 point (without DI). I would suggest experimenting with this. Once I get more testing in 4.2, I'll update this question/guide with more information.
So there's a chance that stacking Mastery can increase dps. However, the trick is getting enough gear to have some mastery to/ stack after hitting the threshold. the jury's out for the moment, and I haven't been able to find anything on the typical sites to indicate strongly and provide evidence as of yet.
It's definitely something to follow closely.
Post by
91278
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Post by
vykas
Indeed. Stating a number and calling it a "plateau" does not proof of existence make. I would say take another look at the shadowpriest.com information (it's only 7 pages of discussion) and you will see some very convincing information in relation to haste and how it scales.
Post by
IDrownFish
I'm not saying people should stack mastery to the exclusion of haste, sorry if I gave that impression. I know that haste still gives benefit past that point. Up until you get GCD capped, and probably even after that, Haste is going to give benefit by making the DoTs tick faster.
What I'm saying is that past that point, Mastery just might become more valuable. I just really haven't seen enough arguments either way.
Post by
vykas
When you say things like "plateaus
do
exist" you are in fact saying just that. A plateau implies that once one is reached, there is no benefit to be had unless you can reach the next. To backtrack and say that isn't what you meant is confusing to others who may read this. It would be helpful if you could provide some data to back that statement up. Words like "chance," "I think," "I believe," and "just might" are speculative and not based on data.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
IDrownFish
When you say things like "plateaus
do
exist" you are in fact saying just that. A plateau implies that once one is reached, there is no benefit to be had unless you can reach the next. To backtrack and say that isn't what you meant is confusing to others who may read this. It would be helpful if you could provide some data to back that statement up. Words like "chance," "I think," "I believe," and "just might" are speculative and not based on data.
Then I misspoke. Sorry.
And that's what I was saying about the data - I'd like to see some. I haven't been able to find any, though.
Post by
vykas
I'm more concerned with
shadowpriest.com
's seemingly unjustified U-Turn on the idea of a plateau.
I think it has to do with the word "plateau" itself.
Post by
91278
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Post by
469135
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
vykas
I think it has to do with the word "plateau" itself.
Not really. If they're claiming that there is a certain threshold after which you should stack Mastery, I'd call that a plateau even if they're not actually using the word.
Then I guess I'm blind because I'm not sure where you're seeing that information on there. The latest post that I can find talking about haste and plateaus was on the 23rd (found
here
) saying that the "conclusion was that haste has no plateaus..." Granted that post was in the Newcomers section, so we can take it for what it's worth.
Post by
91278
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